GL Vincenz Müller - Vaterländischer Verdienstorden

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USAF1986
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GL Vincenz Müller - Vaterländischer Verdienstorden

Post by USAF1986 » 07 Nov 2004 00:52

Hello! Generalleutnant Vincenz Müller held the Vaterländischer Verdienstorden (Fatherland’s Merit Order) of the DDR - see my new avatar. Does anyone know which class it was: bronze, silver or gold? Thanks for any assistance!

Best regards,
Shawn

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Post by USAF1986 » 23 Nov 2004 06:41

Of interest, here are the known decorations of Generalleutnant Vincenz Müller. Any additions would be most appreciated.

Note his Turkish decorations. In mid-1915, Leutnant Müller was detached to the German military mission in Constantinople. While serving as a platoon leader in the Turkish Pioneer Command at Gallipoli, he was wounded by a grenade fragment in November 1915. After the withdrawal of the Allies from Gallipoli, he transferred to Baghdad where he served as an advisor with a Turkish pioneer battalion on the Persian Front. He returned to Germany at the end of 1916 a sick man having contracted malaria and typhus. In June 1917, he volunteered to serve as a pioneer tactics instructor at the Turkish Officers Pioneer School in Cospoli. Six months later he returned to Germany. See Genosse General! Die Militärelite der DDR in biografischen Skizzen edited by Hans Ehlert and Armin Wagner (Ch. Links Verlag, Berlin, Germany, 2003) for further details on the life and career of Generalleutnant Müller.

Best regards,
Shawn

• Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross: 7 April 1944, Generalleutnant, Deputy Leader of the XXVII Army Corps.
• German Cross in Gold: 26 January 1942, Oberst i.G., Chief of the General Staff of the 17th Army.
• Prussian Iron Cross, 1st Class (1914) with 1939 Bar
• Prussian Iron Cross, 2nd Class (1914) with 1939 Bar
• Medal for the Winter Campaign in Russia 1941/1942 (“East Medal”)
• Württemberg Friedrich Order, Knight 2nd Class with Swords
• Cross of Honor for Combatants 1914-1918
• Armed Forces Long Service Award, 1st Class (25-year Service Cross)
• Armed Forces Long Service Award, 3rd Class (12-year Service Medal)
• Turkish Mejidie Order, 5th Class with Sabers
• Turkish War Medal (“Iron Crescent”)
• Romanian Order of Michael the Brave, 3rd Class: 19 March 1943 (Royal Decree No. 726).
• Order of the Star of Romania, Commander Grade with Swords: February 1943.
• Fatherland’s Merit Order (class unknown) – DDR

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ritterkreuz1945
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Post by ritterkreuz1945 » 23 Nov 2004 06:49

8O I wonder his uniform looked like when he had HIS retirment parade. LOL
i mean I know he would not have had the ritterkreuz on, nor for sure the German Cross, nor the iron crosses probley, but how kewl would that be to see on one uniform at the end of a career fighting for 3 diferent Germany Nations. Sometimes history is a ass kicker.
Would like to know what you think Air force. I was stationed at the old USAF headquaters in Wiesbaden, now a Army Airfield. and home to the 1st Armored division.

Michael

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USAF1986
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Post by USAF1986 » 23 Nov 2004 23:15

Well, he certainly would have had quite a set of fruit salad if he could have worn it all! You're correct; he was not permitted to wear any of his previous decorations as a member of the NVA. He served as Deputy Minister for National Defense and Chief of the Main Staff from 1 March 1956 until his retirement for health reasons on 28 February 1958.

Here’s a photo of Müller as a Generalleutnant in the Kasernierte Volkspolizei (Barracked People’s Police). Note he’s wearing only two ribbons: the Fatherland’s Merit Order and another one (it looks like it might be the Merit Medal of the NVA in Bronze).

Apparently Müller was not a very happy man – he committed suicide on 12 May 1961 by jumping from the balcony of his bedroom onto the terrace below. He died from internal injuries while en route to a hospital.

Best regards,
Shawn

P.S. Technically, Müller served in four German armies: the Imperial Army, the Reichswehr, the Wehrmacht and the NVA.
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Post by ritterkreuz1945 » 24 Nov 2004 01:15

Yup, really looks like a soviet officer in that picture. Really doesn't even look like a Lt. General of the imperial mode does he? Damn, what stories he could have told. History is REALLY a ass kicker. I wonder if he kept his "other" german awards in a shoe box under his bed..lol
How does a guy fight on the eastern front, against thosepeople, and then become their puppet? I bet he was "really" impressed with his DDR awards :P Well thank you for sharing the picture. It was nice to see. I still don't understand the Bundswher, not allowing the wearing og DDR awards, when they OBSORBED the NVA, but they could wear Nazi stuff, with out swatiska 8O Really kinda wierd, don't you think?

Michael

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USAF1986
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Post by USAF1986 » 24 Nov 2004 02:16

Of interest, here is what a Generalmajor looked like upon the introduction of new NVA uniforms in 1956. This looks strangely familiar!

Best regards,
Shawn

SOURCE: Keubke, Klaus-Ulrich & Kunz, Manfred. Uniformen der Nationalen Volksarmee der DDR, 1956-1986. Brandenburgisches Verlagshaus, Berlin (East), German Democratic Republic, 1990. BTW, this is quite simply the best reference I have ever seen on the subject! The entire history of NVA uniforms from 1956-1986 is covered by extensive text, photographs and over 200 of these "Osprey-like" color illustrations depicting every uniform combination in wear.
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USAF1986
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Post by USAF1986 » 21 Dec 2004 17:37

Note he’s wearing only two ribbons: the Fatherland’s Merit Order and another one (it looks like it might be the Merit Medal of the NVA in Bronze).
Upon further digging, the second ribbon is probably that of the Medaille für treue Dienste in der Kasernierten Volkspolizei (Medal for Loyal Service in the Barracked People’s Police).

I'm still hoping to find the class of his Fatherland’s Merit Order...

Best regards,
Shawn

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Post by Panzer Fuehrer » 21 Dec 2004 17:54

USAF1986 wrote:Of interest, here is what a Generalmajor looked like upon the introduction of new NVA uniforms in 1956. This looks strangely familiar!

Best regards,
Shawn

SOURCE: Keubke, Klaus-Ulrich & Kunz, Manfred. Uniformen der Nationalen Volksarmee der DDR, 1956-1986. Brandenburgisches Verlagshaus, Berlin (East), German Democratic Republic, 1990. BTW, this is quite simply the best reference I have ever seen on the subject! The entire history of NVA uniforms from 1956-1986 is covered by extensive text, photographs and over 200 of these "Osprey-like" color illustrations depicting every uniform combination in wear.
While I would not disagree that the book you have referenced above, is a good book for study of the NVA and the progression of their uniforms from inception in 1956 to and through 1986, for the collector of these uniforms and that of the Grenztruppen, Polizei and Stasi, I would earnestly recommend acquisition of the book Uniformeffekten der bewaffneten Organe der DDR Spezialkatalog Band I and Band II (Books 1 and 2) by Klaus Walther. These are esentially "Bibles" and there are no better sources for clarification of Uniform accoutrements nor their gradual changes and variants, as well as phase out dates and dates of initial issue and wear. In addition, the books contain information and photos of Fake Uniform apparel, insignia and decorations.

Michael

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RE: KVP True Service Medal

Post by Panzer Fuehrer » 21 Dec 2004 23:18

Hi Shawn,

Regarding the two ribbons depicted on Generalleutnant Vincenz Müller’s Dark Collar era Tunic:

Unfortunately it’s a black and white photo, and as you are obviously already aware, the highest of a particular award was authorized for wear without the lesser medals of the same award being worn. The Vaterlandischer Verdienstorden (Medal) therefore could be bronze, silver or gold. Hopefully, you will find somewhere printed text on this individual that further identifies precedence relevant this particular award, and when you do, it is further hoped you will share your findings.

On another note: Generalleutnant Vincenz Müller’s photo depicts him wearing an MdI Dark Collar General’s Tunic. The second ribbon most probably, as you have already surmised, was for the Treue Dienste in der Kasernierten Volkspolizei or (Barracks Police). Good catch.

It really is dependent upon when the photo was taken (pre 1956 or post 1956), and then if post 1956 is still open to conjecture without seeing him in parade uniform. (Or having access to the Urkundes that accompanied the medals).
The KVP True Service medal was approved April 28 1954. The 1st NVA variant of the medal appeared in 1956. Initially, the NVA True Service medal used the exact same suspension ribbon used for the KVP medal. And initially it was only produced, like the KVP version, in Bronze. That is why it is difficult to define with certainty, which medal Müller is wearing, without knowing more about the photo. If taken prior to May 1956, it is without question the KVP version. Afterward, it could be either type.
But odds are, you’re right and it’s the KVP True Service. Particularly since he is wearing an MdI General's Tunic. Again, Good catch.

Note: Subsequent medals were produced in bronze, silver and gold, denoting 5, 10 and 15 years of service. Many, who were former KVP, automatically qualified for the NVA silver because of service already accrued with the KVP. Eventually a 20 year medal was added. Two Roman numerals (XX) appeared on this version. This same style of True Service medal was later used by both the Civil Defense and the Grenztruppen. The MdI ironically produced a completely different True Service medal for the Police, and again for the Kampfgruppen.

Attached is a photo showing the KVP True Service medal and its transition into that of the NVA True Service Medal.
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Post by Winston Smith » 30 May 2006 03:59

USAF1986 wrote:Of interest, here is what a Generalmajor looked like upon the introduction of new NVA uniforms in 1956. This looks strangely familiar!
Here a photo of Müller wearing this type of uniform.

Source: Internet
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Re: GL Vincenz Müller - Vaterländischer Verdienstorden

Post by zhangyawei » 26 Apr 2011 05:49

Are there any more photos for him in WH during the Third Reich?
I only have two
Vincenz Müller.JPG
Generalleutnant der Wehrmacht Vincenc Müller 1943.jpg
zhang
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