Hip firing an MG 42 !?

Discussions on the small arms used by the Axis forces.
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Reich Ruin
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Hip firing an MG 42 !?

Post by Reich Ruin » 27 Nov 2004 05:36

Is it even possible ? Other light machine guns like the famous British Bren machinge gun could be fired easily like a rifle and then be deployed on it's bipod when troops had to take up firing positions. In the game Call Of Duty: Fines Hour a MG 42 could be used in this manner both firing like a rifle ( thus using a drum ammo clip of course ) and then when you get down low using it on it's bipod. Real cool but was this normal for the MG 42 to be used other than with it's bipod deployed ?

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Tom Houlihan
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Post by Tom Houlihan » 27 Nov 2004 05:50

Based on personal experience with the M60, it can be done, but accuracy suffers. It's more suppressive than anything.

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Christoph Awender
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Post by Christoph Awender » 27 Nov 2004 05:58

I have a manual where it is described and pictures of doing it with a M.G.34. I would think that it is also possible with a M.G.42 then (?)

\Christoph

yabint
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Post by yabint » 27 Nov 2004 07:12

I've seen videos of guys shooting the MG-42 from the hip. I've also seen one of a big guy shoot a whole 50 round belt, from the shoulder standing.

However he was big, and handled the gun like it was a toy.

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DARIVS ARCHITECTVS
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Yes it is possible..

Post by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS » 27 Nov 2004 07:43

Yes, it is possible to fire the MG-42 from the hip. You should be a relatively strong person to attempt this. German machinegunners were selected from the stronger men in a unit. I can do it with surprisingly good skill, having practiced "sturmfeuer" with my MG-42 for a long time now. It's very impressive to onlookers, who typically think that accurate firing of such a heavy weapon is difficult at best. There is a proper technique for it, as taught by German trainers, but the stance required is not a natural one, and without practice, it very uncomfortable. After being taught how the stance is assumed, the weapon can be fired in bursts that are surprising accurate at 60 yards. Now sturmfeuer as it is called is not typically practiced. It is used when a machine gun team is hard pressed by the enemy to change positions, with a great threat of coming under fire during the move. The machinegun is prepared with a 50-round sturmtrommel (assault drum) which is typically used when using a bipod without as assistant to hold the ammo belt or when using the anti-aircraft tripod.

As for how sturmfeuer is actually done, here is a full decription: The weapon is loaded with a 50 round belt in a sturmtrommel. The sling is disconnected from the forward ring and then wrapped around the pistol grip of the gun one-half turn, and then the sling is opened up and thrown over one's head. Wrapping the sling around the grip shortened it enough to place the gun at the correct height when the sling is looped around your neck. The sling does seem to interefere with operation of the safety somewhat, but the weapon should have the safety off in preparation to defend oneself when using this firing mode anyway, since it is usually used in desperate circumstances only. The preferred method has always been firing the MG-42 off the bipod. The sturm trommel should rest lightly against your ribe below left arm, with your left hand grabbing the very end of the left arm of the bipod, which is locked in the forward position by virtue of it's locking hinged joint. Your right hand is on the trigger group grip, over the sling leather, and your right elbow presses against the buttstock lightly to hold the weapon to your body. Now here comes the part that REALLY matters; the stance. Your feet are a bit wider than shoulder width, with your forward leg bent, lowering the height of your body about 7", toes pointed to the left side of your body. Your rearward (right) is straight like a rod, and almost all your weight is on your forward (left) leg. Your left leg will be bent to the degree that it is strained to hold up your bodyweight. For accuracy, the following is critical: The weapon is exactly in line with your two feet, making it lie across your chest and NOT any angle forward of the line formed by the nipples of your breast. Do otherwise and the gun will spray bullets with the muzzle arcing 6" to the right as soon as you squeeze off a burst. You back should be straight and weight above your left leg. Do NOT lean backeard and arch your back to try to compensate for the muzzle weight, or your will spray bullets inaccurately, and your control will be naught since your are off balance. Your shoulders should also NOT be twisted out of the plane of your feet and the machine gun. Your body and legs form a FLAT triangle. The recoil push will thus be transferred to your rear leg, and take some of your body weight off your forward leg. If your left leg is bent far enough, and your stance is low enough, the gun will not throw your upper body backward and cause you to become off balance with recoil. Because the gun is flat ACROSS your chest, you have to twist your neck to see the target. I said twist your neck, and NOT your shoulders. Like I said, this is not a natural position, but it is not totally unbearable for short time periods. Practice, and you fall into the position quickly when your have to quickly shoot and you will not miss with the first burst, and all bursts can be guided to wherever your eye glances. Resist the temptation to rotate the gun to the right or rotate your shoulders to the left, or you will not have control. I cannot stress this highly enough. When you squeeze the trigger, squeeze it hard and release it with resolve. As the first fires, you will lean even more to the fore to compensate of the push of recoil and you will pull the bipod with slightly more pressure to the left to stay on target. With practice, you will no EXACTLY how much to lean forward as the burst commences, and how much to let off when you lay off the trigger to retain control and balance. Fire your first burst, and if you have to adjust angle, shift the position of your rear leg before firing another burst.

You can view the correct and incorrect methods of sturmfeuer on my website's video page at:

http://198.144.2.125/MG42/Machinengeweh ... Videos.htm

If anyone has any questions regarding application of the MG-42 universal machinegun, feel free to contact me using the e-mail address on the title page of my website at: http://www.stormthewalls.dhs.org. If you are in Minnesota and want to try out the MG-42 yourself, let me know. I take the gun out on spectial occasions and let others try it out often. (payment for your own ammo is appreciated of course!)

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS
Kurt Suleski
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Anoka, MN
Last edited by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS on 29 Nov 2004 10:33, edited 1 time in total.

CHRISCHA
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Post by CHRISCHA » 28 Nov 2004 11:11

Well answered!

Very helpful detail.

Chris.

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Reich Ruin
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Post by Reich Ruin » 28 Nov 2004 21:56

Yes thanks very well explained ! I was extremely curious about this.

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ÜberChad
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Post by ÜberChad » 03 Dec 2004 01:14

Thats a pretty awesome website you brought up there DARIVS ARCHITECTVS and I must say bravo on your input..very well explained.

though this puzzled me somewhat wouldnt a hand grip stationed under the barrel work better on hip fireing the MG 42 than just hanging on to the bi-pod of it?

Though I doupt those were made for the weapon, though this is more of a what if question...

Sweet Action Guys,
¤Ü.C.¤

Gearhead1432
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Post by Gearhead1432 » 03 Dec 2004 04:18

I have never seen a forward hand grip on a 34 or a 42. So the only alterative is to grab the bipod. I don't think the gunner would want to hold on to the barrel becasue under full auto it would be far too hot to hold onto, unless you had a welding glove or something like that.

Rob

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ÜberChad
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Post by ÜberChad » 03 Dec 2004 23:27

Thats true...

though I saw on the web site that was posted up earlier, it was talking about an "Assualt Drum" that carried ammo for the mg-42. Was that commonly Issued to troops?

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Shc
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Post by Shc » 03 Dec 2004 23:30

Wow DARIVS ARCHITECTVS, thx for showing the link with all the videos!
:D

I downloaded all the videos and I love them! :P
Last edited by Shc on 04 Dec 2004 05:03, edited 1 time in total.

Gearhead1432
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Post by Gearhead1432 » 04 Dec 2004 04:49

The "assult drum" that held a 50rnd belt was very common and was carried in pairs on a single frame (don't know the name for it). There was also a dupeltromel 75rnd magazine that was use in aircraft that could be adapted to the mg34.

Rob

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Madsen
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Post by Madsen » 05 Dec 2004 00:18

If You are strong enough its possible to use a MG3(is it lighter or heavier than a MG42?) in all normal rifle positions.IF you are strong enough to hold it. I can handle it like e normal AG3 and fire it even in a standing position. but for what reason? I like to think im strong. im a big guy. but as soon i fire a MG in any other positions than in prone ill end ut throwing ammo away, its impossible to hold it still. even at three rounds burst you will miss by at least one round. but it would scare an enemy :lol:
a 194cm high soldier running against you with an MG3 at his shoulder firing as he run :lol: :lol: but using it from the hip is a much better idea. the MG gunners we have can hit a target in quite long distance. the use the trace to aim :)

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Alter Mann
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Firing MGs From Hip

Post by Alter Mann » 05 Dec 2004 00:41

I went through Primary NCO Course in the Army at Fort Hood Texas in 1976. During one of the field exercises, I was unfortunate enough to be carrying the M-60 machine gun, as well as the squad radio, at the same time. In other words, I wasn't very mobile.

We were ambushed by an aggressor force while coming out of a woodline and everyone, except me, ran like hell. I waddled back the way we had come, and through a narrow break in a hedge, into an open field, then stopped to breathe. I was amazed to see four of the aggressors run through break in the hedge after me. The range was less than 20 meters. They did not have their weapons in firing position. I had a canvas bag with 50 rounds attached to the loading tray. (Standard equipment.) I hosed them down. They quit chasing me. I think this is an excellent example of why firing from the hip is sometimes practiced.

I've also tried the M-60 in the off-hand (John Wayne) position. People who suggest that this is a bad idea have my support.

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Madsen
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Post by Madsen » 05 Dec 2004 02:10

I've also tried the M-60 in the off-hand (John Wayne) position. People who suggest that this is a bad idea have my support.

John Wayne? wasnt it John Rambo? :lol:

if a man is firing at you from under 60 meters with a MG i wouldn't be too happy to be in front of him. so as you told Alte Mann it works:)

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