Austria-Hungary - Why unkown?

Discussions on all aspects of Austria-Hungary. Hosted by Glenn Jewison.
User avatar
Marcus
Member
Posts: 33960
Joined: 08 Mar 2002 22:35
Location: Europe

Austria-Hungary - Why unkown?

Post by Marcus » 27 Aug 2002 13:26

Why do you think that Austria-Hungary is so unkown among regular people today and so often ignored even in historical discussions ("oh yes, there were a few minor states fighting with Germany in WWI, Austrria-Hungary for example" is a not unfrequent line of reasoning) ?

Image
( http://www.hapsburg.com/menu1.htm )

/Marcus

User avatar
Zachary
Member
Posts: 1153
Joined: 13 Jul 2002 21:55
Location: Sunshine State, USA

Post by Zachary » 27 Aug 2002 13:33

Maybe because the most popular fronts in the West was the Western Front, and maybe that "far off" eastern front and even more "far off" the Middle East. Also maybe because Austria Hungary didn't do all that well so she is greatly ignored in the textbooks today.
But if it wasn't for Austria-Hungary we would never of had a WWI and ultimately WW2, but many people over look that.
Regards,
Zachary

User avatar
sylvieK4
Member
Posts: 3089
Joined: 13 Mar 2002 17:29

Post by sylvieK4 » 27 Aug 2002 14:59

I agree with the crux of Zachary's theory, about the "popularity" of Western Fronts among Western historians. To take it a step further, I believe that many Western historians, at least, do not give great attention to the subject of Austria-Hungary as its main rivals were Eastern nations. Austria-Hungary had long been at odds with Russia, and many of its minority groups (Serbs, Slovaks, etc.) were of more immediate interest to Russia and other Eastern influences than to the West at large (Germany France, Great Britain, the United States, etc.).

I think that many historians in the West focus most upon subjects that touch their own countries and cultures most. Perhaps the history of Austria-Hungary is studied in greater depth in Russia, Romania, Serbia, and other places where it has more immediate relevance. (Maybe Ovidius can tell us more. :mrgreen: )

I wish the history of Austria-Hungary, and that of the subsequent Republic and independent Kingdom was not so ignored by Western historians, as it is really very rich and interesting.

User avatar
Csaba Becze
Member
Posts: 656
Joined: 27 May 2002 10:44
Location: Hungary

Post by Csaba Becze » 27 Aug 2002 16:05

Sylvie,

I've found a Soviet map of the early-medieval Hungary. It was hilarious... Rutenia was the part of the Rus (in fact it was a part of Hungary till 1918 and just from late 1944 was a part of Soviet-Union - in official from 1945).

User avatar
Navy Vet
Financial supporter
Posts: 1405
Joined: 11 May 2002 04:58
Location: USA

Post by Navy Vet » 27 Aug 2002 17:52

Zachary wrote:But if it wasn't for Austria-Hungary we would never of had a WWI and ultimately WW2


This is fact, correct? If it were not for the assination.

User avatar
Stéphane
Member
Posts: 26
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 05:36
Location: Canada

Post by Stéphane » 28 Aug 2002 00:02

WWI would've taken place even without the assasination, it was just a matter of time. Germany and France came close to war a few years earlier over incidents in Morocco.

Gwynn Compton
Member
Posts: 2840
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 22:46
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Gwynn Compton » 28 Aug 2002 07:15

Zachary wrote:
But if it wasn't for Austria-Hungary we would never of had a WWI and ultimately WW2



This is fact, correct? If it were not for the assination.


It is not possible to blame just this for the outbreak of World War One. There are many contributing factors. The assassination of Franz Ferdinand on the 28th of June must be seen as the trigger for war, rather than the sole cause.

The competition for colonies was one factor, this competition brought Germany into conflict with France and Britain, the two other colonial powers, and thus created tension throughout the war. While Germany was the lesser of this colonial trio, the colonial dreams of the Kaiser cannot be underestimated.

Age old animosity from France to Germany was another, France was simply itching for an oppotunity to reclaim the border lands that she lost to Germany in 1870 (that date correct?), and the events that flowed on from the assassination of the Archduke, provided France with that chance which she wanted so badly.

Nationalist tensions within the Austro-Hungarian Empire were sooner or later likely to tear apart the Empire, which seemed to be rapidly heading towards collapse. Archduke Ferdinand did want to give minorities in the Empire a greater autonomy, but it is debatable how much success such an action would have.

Serbia was another factor linked into this nationalism, Serbia was determined to carve herself a place in the world, and believed a similiar pan-slavicism that Russia did. Russia needed only an action against the Slavs, for her to become involved.

Economic competition, between Germany, France, Britain and Russia was also fierce, more so between the first three, and Germany herself was in competition with the growing industrial might of America.

The naval race between Britain and Germany cannot be excluded either as a source of potential conflict between these two powers.

Not only this, but Germany was largely resented by her neighbours. The growth of Germany into the great central european power that it was, upset the previous balance of power in Europe, and thus had France, Britain and Russia worried, as to what Germany may try to do with this new found power.

If you could remove all of these factors, then you would have avoided the First World War, and also the second (which was a direct result of the first). The assassination of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand, was merely the catalyst for these nations to unleash their militaries onto each other. Once the slide to war was started, it quickly turned into an avalanche.

Gwynn

User avatar
Der Schwarze Ritter
Member
Posts: 147
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 08:12
Location: California

Post by Der Schwarze Ritter » 28 Aug 2002 07:39

I remember having this discussion a while ago in the history forum, one of the members said that on the eve of war Berlin had sent a telegram to Vienna it said that Germany would not support Austria if they went to war with Serbia. This message was intercepted by German Militants and Vienna never got the message.


-Daniel-

User avatar
Csaba Becze
Member
Posts: 656
Joined: 27 May 2002 10:44
Location: Hungary

Post by Csaba Becze » 28 Aug 2002 10:36

[quote="Der Schwarze Ritter"]
I remember having this discussion a while ago in the history forum, one of the members said that on the eve of war Berlin had sent a telegram to Vienna it said that Germany would not support Austria if they went to war with Serbia. This message was intercepted by German Militants and Vienna never got the message.


I never heard this.
The German and Austro-Hungarian staffs united their steps.

Csaba

User avatar
Antonio Pena
Member
Posts: 161
Joined: 08 May 2002 23:37
Location: Cambre (Galicia- SPAIN)

Austria-Hungary. Why unknown?

Post by Antonio Pena » 28 Aug 2002 23:22

I agree with the teory about the popularity of the Western Front. But I think that the poor? register of the AustroHungarian armies are the main factor. The East Front is very unknown for many people and his great battles (as great as the ones on the Western Front for the number of mens involved) are not considered pieces of study. But I think that the German-Austrian ofensive against Rumania was one masterpiece of military and logistic for that time, and the War in the Italian Front is another masterpiece of the use of limited power defending a front against a more powerful enemy. Also we don't want to remember the role of the AustroHungarian heavy artillery with the fall of the belgian fortress. We need to study the battles of the Isonzo and the Battle of Caporetto that attracts many british and french divisions to the Italian front. And many more including the existence and career of the Austrohungarian Asien Korps, fighting alongside the Turks (I will appreciate all possible information on this last).

Best Regards to all

Luca
Member
Posts: 916
Joined: 21 Jul 2002 11:58
Location: Italia

Post by Luca » 28 Aug 2002 23:45

I North-East Italia is probable more "famous" and collect the WW I that the WW II.

User avatar
Victor
Member
Posts: 3901
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 14:25
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Post by Victor » 07 Sep 2002 13:09

sylvieK4 wrote:I think that many historians in the West focus most upon subjects that touch their own countries and cultures most. Perhaps the history of Austria-Hungary is studied in greater depth in Russia, Romania, Serbia, and other places where it has more immediate relevance. (Maybe Ovidius can tell us more. :mrgreen: )


You are correct.

User avatar
Navy Vet
Financial supporter
Posts: 1405
Joined: 11 May 2002 04:58
Location: USA

Post by Navy Vet » 08 Sep 2002 01:03

France was simply itching for an oppotunity to reclaim the border lands that she lost to Germany in 1870 (that date correct?)


Plz go into more detail.

Germany herself was in competition with the growing industrial might of America


How did America enter WWI?

User avatar
SerbTiger
Member
Posts: 285
Joined: 17 Sep 2002 10:38
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post by SerbTiger » 18 Sep 2002 00:02

The war was going to happen even without the assassination.

Austria wanted to crush Serbia as the Serbs were a bad example to other Slavs under its yoke. They knew that the oppression of the Slavs could not continue for long unless they destroyed the Serbian State and the assassination was the perfect opportunity to fulfil their aim.

I am interested how is Austro-Hungary looked upon by other Slavic nations, Slovaks, Romanians, Croats..

Gwynn Compton
Member
Posts: 2840
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 22:46
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Gwynn Compton » 18 Sep 2002 11:24

Quote:
France was simply itching for an oppotunity to reclaim the border lands that she lost to Germany in 1870 (that date correct?)


Plz go into more detail.

Quote:
Germany herself was in competition with the growing industrial might of America


How did America enter WWI?


1870 was the Franco-Prussian war, where in 6 weeks, The Prussians defeated Napoleon III at Sedan in a magnificant victory with 83,000 Frenchmen surrendering to the Prussians, including Napoleon III. Following this, a Government of National Defence was declared in Paris and Napoleon III was officially deposed. The Germans then advanced and surrounded Paris from September 1870-January 1871 until Paris capitulated and was forced to agree to the German peace terms.

The French were forced to pay 5 Billion Gold Francs as reparations and hand over the province of Alsace-Lorraine (while the French felt this a huge blow to their national honour, they forgot that most of the province actually spoke German). In the hall of mirrors at Versailles the German Empire was also announced on January 2nd, another act designed to humiliate the French.

As for your second question,

The Germans sunk the Lusitania, killing many Americans onboard. That essentially was the last straw for the Americans, who provided the final numbers needed to defeat Germany.

Gwynn

Return to “Austria-Hungary 1867–1918”