Could the Baltic States have resisted to the Soviet Union?

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 04 Nov 2006 15:20

Reigo wrote:
I wish to receive the answer from our Baltic friends: It too Russian propanda?

http://europeliberty.com/userdata/Estonia.pdf


Yes it too, because the publication itself is a part of propaganda war, which everyone can read from the introduction on the very first page.

It is not a serious attempt to research historical events, but instead a collection of documents which are picked to prove some point. By this there is a complete lack of source criticism: there is no attempt to research if the information in the documents is true or not. So the whole nature of this publication is propagandistic no matter that the information in it surely contains also much truth.

A serious attempt to reserach these events is something like this:
viewtopic.php?t=97535


I do not know it is how much possible to trust Lennart Meri. It so much years was the communist. In your press wrote about its possible cooperation with KGB. How it is possible to trust books with participation of this person? ("Süümepiinadeta").

Reigo
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Post by Reigo » 04 Nov 2006 15:32

Meri hasn't written a chapter there. But now enough of this game. My time is more precious than to waste it on trolls.

LatvianLegion
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Post by LatvianLegion » 06 Nov 2006 20:15

When the Red army came in Latvia all the latvian officers were killed and deported to Russia , but the latvian soldiers were changed into red army forces.And in 1941 14. june russians deported thousands of latvian civilans,children,women and old man to Syberia.

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 07 Nov 2006 13:55

LatvianLegion wrote:When the Red army came in Latvia all the latvian officers were killed and deported to Russia , but the latvian soldiers were changed into red army forces.And in 1941 14. june russians deported thousands of latvian civilans,children,women and old man to Syberia.


How many the Latvian officers have been killed in 1940-1941? And who ordered about battalions and company Latvian territorial rifle corps 06.22.1941? Learn to write a word "Siberia" correctly.

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Post by LatvianLegion » 07 Nov 2006 16:12

I dont know accuarately :
64 officers - committed suicide or found dead in Latvia.
193 officers- arested
434 officers - deported to russia (killed and inserted in prisoner camps)
60- taken with the retreating Russians
4-lost their lives in partizan fighting

sorry for ''And who ordered about battalions and company Latvian territorial rifle corps 06.22.1941?'' i havent started to read about this i now read about latvian legion .

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 07 Nov 2006 16:42

LatvianLegion wrote:I dont know accuarately :
64 officers - committed suicide or found dead in Latvia.
193 officers- arested
434 officers - deported to russia (killed and inserted in prisoner camps)
60- taken with the retreating Russians
4-lost their lives in partizan fighting

sorry for ''And who ordered about battalions and company Latvian territorial rifle corps 06.22.1941?'' i havent started to read about this i now read about latvian legion .


434 - Deported - does not mean are killed. 60 - taken - does not mean against their will. More exact figures are necessary. In Red army till 1939-1940 there were many officers - Latvians.

When you will investigate this period of history of Latvia - look also the period of 1941 - Latvian Rifle Corps. This corps had very much greater losses in fights with the German army. Latvians have killed many Germans. Its separate parts battled very adequately. It too were Latvians. It is impossible to forget about it. They the same heroes, as well as those who now has the raised pension from the Government of Latvia. Any policy from me does not arrive.

Regards.

LatvianLegion
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Post by LatvianLegion » 07 Nov 2006 19:45

I Havent forget about it!!! i just have not so much information about it but i now smaller things like :
if u fight in red army your family wont be deported to Siberia.And there were fights when LATVIAN in german side kill Latvian in russian side and somtimes brother kill brother and father son but some just keep up because they wont shot a latvian.

Deported does not mean that they all were killed but some died of hunger and cold .

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 25 Nov 2007 21:32

Inflamatory posts and responses to them were removed. If you want to continue to the discussions on this topic, stick to the discussing the facts about the years in questions and avoid political remarks or post-war (especially present day) events.

/Marcus

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Lit.
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Songs of Freedom

Post by Lit. » 26 Nov 2007 11:26

Marcus Wendel wrote:Inflammatory posts and responses to them were removed. If you want to continue to the discussions on this topic, stick to the discussing the facts about the years in questions and avoid political remarks or post-war (especially present day) events.

/Marcus
Thank you Marcus. I politically corrected my post (which is informative and important to this topic), avoiding only remark (of 3 words!) that [edited]

Previously it was written by me in this topic, that the last Lithuanian Freedom Fighter was KIA in 1965.
"The last KIA Lithuanian warrior Antanas Kraujalis - "Siaubunas", from "Vytautas" district. killed in action in 17th of March 1965."
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 720#615720

"Genocide and Research Center of Lithuania" ( http://www.genocid.lt/centras/en/ ) just find out a new evidence, that the last Lithuanian warrior fell in this bloody war with the occupational forces of USSR not in 1965, but on the 2nd of October, 1969. His name was Kostas Liuberskis -"Žvainys" (1913-1969).

(Source: article "The last Lithuanian Partisans" by Ričardas Čekutis and Dalius Žygelis.http://www.bernardinai.lt/?url=articles/69953 )

You can also see picture of Kostas Liuberskis - "Zvainys" in the title pic of new video Songs of Freedom "Slepkis, Slepkis Broluzeli"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSeL9420uS8

It's important to note that this new video with the lot of rare pictures of Lithuanian partisans like other two:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z7khAPgYDw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Pb2r7vCYY

has a unique and very monumental music background. Both are with beautiful Lithuanian folk songs dedicated to our Freedom Fighters.

There are hundreds of such songs created by Lithuanian people. (It documents what real support was for our soldiers fighting in the woods with Red Army of invaders).

To sing such kind of song in occupied Lithuania was highly dangerous and also very brave act of moral resistance. Lithuanians were prosecuted and terrorized by the Soviet NKVD-KGB only for this, and many was sentenced to jail or GULAG, for singing one song only. Such prosecution lasted till Independence of the Republic of Lithuania was restored (1990.03.11).


[political remark removed]

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 15 Dec 2007 22:10

A post by Tomusik was removed following my above post. Stay clear of political remarks or post-war (especially present day) events or this thread will be locked.

/Marcus

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Lit.
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Post by Lit. » 15 Feb 2008 12:43

There is a new good and relaeble sources for this topic:

Authentic KGB documents:
The idea for this project was born a long time ago but was not finalised until 2006, when historians from Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania met in Vilnius. The project aimed to make public KGB documents from the years of the occupation of the three countries.

There were more motives to prepare an online site. First of all, historians from the three countries have always been annoyed by Russian propaganda that there had never been any occupation of any of the three Baltic States. Many historians were tired of getting into polemics with allegedly non-partisan Russian print and broadcast media representatives on the subject. The more so that later the historians’ arguments were presented out of context, and separate comments were used according to the strict scenario useful to Moscow’s propaganda...
http://www.kgbdocuments.eu/

And literature with testimonies: http://historyreference.blogspot.com/

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Marcus
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Re: Could the Baltic States have resisted to the Soviet Union?

Post by Marcus » 09 Jul 2008 20:40

Please write in English.

btw. welcome to the forum.

/Marcus

Jon G.
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Re: Could the Baltic States have resisted to the Soviet Union?

Post by Jon G. » 10 Jul 2008 21:05

Two posts by <ANTI>KILLER which were insulting and/or not in English were removed by me.

PerC
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Re: Could the Baltic States have resisted to the Soviet Union?

Post by PerC » 10 Aug 2008 16:29

Estonia had 16000 man in arms at time there was peace.
Sovjet Union sent 35000 man + civil worker only into Paldiski area. Total amount was something like 90000 soldiers only in Estonia.

eric_stugfan
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Re: Could the Baltic States have resisted to the Soviet Union?

Post by eric_stugfan » 21 Aug 2008 09:06

Hi, Lit:

Just want to say this thread is really great, I've little idea how baltican people did in the WWII, your arguments and photos are very powerful and informative, I think your fellow lithuanians should be proud for this thread.

Eric

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