Hybrid Tigers

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Luciano B
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Hybrid Tigers

Post by Luciano B » 16 Jan 2005 21:15

Gentlemen,
I would like to know more about the Tiger 411 (picture attached) belonged to schwere panzer-kompanie Hummel. It seems an hybrid model, with ealry production main features and a late type steel roadwheels. I'm looking for any further info (or photo) about that and other hybrid Tigers... When it was rebuilt? Zimmerit coating? A possible camo scheme?
...I'm wondering if late in the war there was an official rebuilding program of early tigers with an established number of advanced features to add to the tanks, or if these veichles were simply a result of custom work done by manteinance crews, maybe mixing parts from different veichles...

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,
Luciano B
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Michael Kenny
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Post by Michael Kenny » 16 Jan 2005 22:11

The last 54 Tigers from the production lines were 'made' using 54 recycled hulls and 32 recycled turrets. However these were all upgraded by retro-fitting all the improvements to that date so in theory they should look like a final version Tiger.
.
Units that recieved these recycled Tigers were:

(FKL) 301- 20
GD- 10
507- 11
Ersatzheer- 3
SS Ersatzheer- 7
Kummersdorf- 5

I know that is 56 but that is the issue record in Jentz!

In the field it is known from photos that turrets and hulls of all makes were mixed and matched to make virtualy any combination of a 'late/early/mid' Tiger as well as the 54 recycled examples.

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bryson109
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Post by bryson109 » 16 Jan 2005 22:15

Tiger I on the Western Front has some pics and info. There is another pic of Tiger 411 as well as a pic of another hybrid, tiger 111 and a colour profile of tiger 407 (also a hybrid).

Kompanie Fehrmann set up in Jan, 45' was issued 5 Panthers and 6 Tiger Is, all hybrids. There are two colour profiles and 5 pictures of the units hybrid tigers in the book.

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Drobjatski Sergei
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Post by Drobjatski Sergei » 16 Jan 2005 23:42

Hi!
Bryson109, can you give the link to the photos, or psot them on thr forum please!

Cheers
/Sergei

Michael Kenny
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Post by Michael Kenny » 17 Jan 2005 00:01


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bryson109
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Post by bryson109 » 17 Jan 2005 00:16

The link above has some pics of Kompanie Fehrmann hybrid tigers.

I'll post some pics ASAP.

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bryson109
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Post by bryson109 » 17 Jan 2005 00:39

Hybrid Tiger Is of Kompanie Hummel.

From: Tiger I on the Western Front / Restayn.

First Tiger 111

Second Tiger 411
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bryson109
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Post by bryson109 » 17 Jan 2005 00:40

A colour profile of Tiger 407 from Kompanie Hummel.

From: Tiger I on the Western Front / Restayn.
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Michael Kenny
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Post by Michael Kenny » 17 Jan 2005 02:46

Strangely it is not evident number '111' is a hybrid. Nothing in the posted photo indicates it is anything but a normal early Tiger. Both chassis and turret are early and there are no road wheels left to say if they were rubber or steel wheeled. There are 2 photos of it from the other side.
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H.v.Holdt
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Post by H.v.Holdt » 17 Jan 2005 10:13

Where found Restayn the example/Photo for the illustration of an Tiger 407 from Hummel/sPzAbt.506. I never saw a picture of Tiger 407, or is it a phantasie illustration?

Somewhere he found out Tiger 407 was a early Tiger with steelwheels, had this color of turret number and had this cammo. Can someone lead me to the photo he saw?

Luciano B
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Post by Luciano B » 17 Jan 2005 22:20

Thanks a lot to all.
I found one more photo about hybrid tigers ...I don't know the source, because I drafted it form the web.
...any idea about the identification of this tank?
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Michael Kenny
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Post by Michael Kenny » 17 Jan 2005 22:38

It is on the cover of Jentz's 'Tiger Tanks, D.W. to Tiger 1' and on page 165 captioned as a vehicle used for testing and modified by having steel wheels fitted and the front extensions cut back as per a late vehicle.

Michael Kenny
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Post by Michael Kenny » 17 Jan 2005 23:41

Quote:

"Where found Restayn the example/Photo for the illustration of an Tiger 407 from Hummel/sPzAbt.506. I never saw a picture of Tiger 407, or is it a phantasie illustration?

Somewhere he found out Tiger 407 was a early Tiger with steelwheels, had this color of turret number and had this cammo. Can someone lead me to the photo he saw? "


Restayn has produced some really strange illustrations. He seems to have an extensive collection of reference photos and tends to use the details from several vehicles to make one 'painting'. Thus while some of the small detail is correct it does not seem that they are really accurate depictions of any specific vehicle.
Other times he gets it completely wrong and his paintings should not really be relied upon as a reference. In his book TOTWF (English version) on page 92 he says '009' of SS 101 was rubber wheeled but the photo of '009' on page 100 clearly shows it to have steel wheels (actualy '008' had the rubber wheels)

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H.v.Holdt
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Post by H.v.Holdt » 18 Jan 2005 08:33

I have an older book from Restayn and the german title is"Panzer und Kettenfahrzeuge des zweiten Weltkriegs". The german version is from 1998 but it is possibly older in original version. Anyway, there he illustrated Tiger 007 correctly with steelwheels. Otherwise Restayn show the tiger 006 from sSSPzAbt.101 and said it was the second tank of the staff company, means in his theorie the staff company of SS 101 had the numbers 005, 006 and 007.

I think it is legitimate to have some little doubts on Restayn´s conclusions.


Back to the Hybrids, it seems the tiger 411 in ardennes is the only tiger from "Hummel" having steelwheels so far. But the rest of this tiger looks like it was simply an early tiger.

stoffe64
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Post by stoffe64 » 30 Sep 2006 13:58

Hello!

i am a new member here with some requests if someone in here knows more about the tigers from Hermann Göring panzer division?...appreciate any help...best regards/stephan[/img][url]http://www.rc-panzerketten-forum.com/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=4892

there is an image of a hybrid tiger that got my attention...does anyone know more or have real photos of such??[/url]

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