I've found the clips. They're at my fathers place. I will have them in a week.
I just got of the phone with a Swedish veteran from Svir and Tali, and he owns a video cassette with (original) films from these places. If I just had a video card with TV-in :/
Finnish discipline
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Nicolas von Schmidt-L
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- Joined: 29 Mar 2002, 15:49
- Location: Sweden
- Contact:
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Nicolas von Schmidt-L
- Member
- Posts: 35
- Joined: 29 Mar 2002, 15:49
- Location: Sweden
- Contact:
clips
I've found the clips. They're at my fathers place. I will have them in a week.
I just got of the phone with a Swedish veteran from Svir and Tali, and he owns a video cassette with (original) films from these places. If I just had a video card with TV-in :/
I just got of the phone with a Swedish veteran from Svir and Tali, and he owns a video cassette with (original) films from these places. If I just had a video card with TV-in :/
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Nicolas von Schmidt-L
- Member
- Posts: 35
- Joined: 29 Mar 2002, 15:49
- Location: Sweden
- Contact:
argh!
Argh! Tripple post! Moderators, please delete some.
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Juha Hujanen
- Member
- Posts: 2196
- Joined: 20 Mar 2002, 12:32
- Location: Suur-Savo,Finland
JariL i used word deserter because of lack of better word.In English they don't have so fitting word as "marjanpoimija" 
.They are different classes of desertion like:unauthorized withdraw,failing to come in service in mobilization,running away in cowardice and mayby even when one don't come back on time from leave.
Here's breakdown for desertions between 41-44.
Failing to come in service in mobilization 2257
Desertion 5929
Run away in cowardice or straggle 3147
Unauthorized withraw 7790
Failing to come back on time from leave 9774
Failing to come back to service after seperation from group 37
So total 28934 cases of different cases of desertion.However it was not uncommon to be on leave few extra day but it was counted on statistics too.And as you said great majorioty of men guillty for unauthirized withdraw came back when they had little rest.
10th Division did take full force of Soviet strategic strike,no wonder it breaked,after bitter fight.German experienced had show that front line always breaked after that kind of blow.Defenders were just overwhelmet.
Just like you said.It's not that some breaked,it's that so many stayed and fought..
Juha
.They are different classes of desertion like:unauthorized withdraw,failing to come in service in mobilization,running away in cowardice and mayby even when one don't come back on time from leave.Here's breakdown for desertions between 41-44.
Failing to come in service in mobilization 2257
Desertion 5929
Run away in cowardice or straggle 3147
Unauthorized withraw 7790
Failing to come back on time from leave 9774
Failing to come back to service after seperation from group 37
So total 28934 cases of different cases of desertion.However it was not uncommon to be on leave few extra day but it was counted on statistics too.And as you said great majorioty of men guillty for unauthirized withdraw came back when they had little rest.
10th Division did take full force of Soviet strategic strike,no wonder it breaked,after bitter fight.German experienced had show that front line always breaked after that kind of blow.Defenders were just overwhelmet.
Just like you said.It's not that some breaked,it's that so many stayed and fought..
Juha
Concentrated artillery fire
Some years ago I heard an interesting lecture on the defensive victories at Tali and Ihantala in 1944.
The lecturer mentioned the concentration of Finnish artillery fire having been calculated, in terms of projectiles per units of area and time, "such that living material died, and unliving military hardware became wrecked useless".
In the summer of 2002 I had the opportunity to visit the Artillery Museum in Hämeenlinna. There was a very impressive video presentation of the battle of Ihantala (unfortunately, in Finnish only), and the display of the Museum presents the development of the fire control methods of the Finnish artillery, led by the legendary General of Artillery, Vilho Petter Nenonen.
In 1942 (?) a new fire control method was introduced by one of Nenonen's subordinates, and it was soon adopted in use. This method allowed the fire of large artillery contingents to be concentrated and corrected by a single front line observer, who reported the hits as if leading the fire of a single artillery piece, while the mathematics for aim corrections was calculated according to his reports separately by each gun crew within range from the target.
Unlike the Winter War, the supply of artillery ammunition in the Continuation War was abundant - to the extent that the Finnish Defence Forces have disposed of wartime surplus ammunition by mass explosions by the tons in Kittilä, Northern Finland, since the 1980's up to present times.
There is also a large firing range by European standerds at Rovajärvi in Northern Finland, which has been the scene of regular major training events for all Finnish field artillery units and weapons since the 1950's, and wartime ammunition has been fired there for decades without the need to spare.
For anyone with the opportunity to visit Hämeenlinna, I highly recommend the Artillery Museum. Also, it is not far from the Armour Museum at Parola.
The lecturer mentioned the concentration of Finnish artillery fire having been calculated, in terms of projectiles per units of area and time, "such that living material died, and unliving military hardware became wrecked useless".
In the summer of 2002 I had the opportunity to visit the Artillery Museum in Hämeenlinna. There was a very impressive video presentation of the battle of Ihantala (unfortunately, in Finnish only), and the display of the Museum presents the development of the fire control methods of the Finnish artillery, led by the legendary General of Artillery, Vilho Petter Nenonen.
In 1942 (?) a new fire control method was introduced by one of Nenonen's subordinates, and it was soon adopted in use. This method allowed the fire of large artillery contingents to be concentrated and corrected by a single front line observer, who reported the hits as if leading the fire of a single artillery piece, while the mathematics for aim corrections was calculated according to his reports separately by each gun crew within range from the target.
Unlike the Winter War, the supply of artillery ammunition in the Continuation War was abundant - to the extent that the Finnish Defence Forces have disposed of wartime surplus ammunition by mass explosions by the tons in Kittilä, Northern Finland, since the 1980's up to present times.
There is also a large firing range by European standerds at Rovajärvi in Northern Finland, which has been the scene of regular major training events for all Finnish field artillery units and weapons since the 1950's, and wartime ammunition has been fired there for decades without the need to spare.
For anyone with the opportunity to visit Hämeenlinna, I highly recommend the Artillery Museum. Also, it is not far from the Armour Museum at Parola.
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Jonas Ström
- Member
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 04 May 2002, 22:57
- Location: Korsholm, Finland
Hi,
i agree with Jonas and the finnish SISU helped stop the russians to!!!!!!!!!
A friend of the family told me a story a few years ago: He and a friend from Korsholm was home at Workleave ( they took care of the years crops). Hi friend said to him when it was time to head back to the frontline that they should desert and head for Sweden. But he said no, he could´nt leave his friends at the front doing all fighting for him, being in Sweden.
They returned to the front anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A relativ was home during a leave and was hunting Seals on the ice outside the island Raippaluoto. The ice broke up and he got stuck and after a period stranded at the swedish coast, got arrested by the swedish police. He told the police that he wanted to get back to the fighting since hes leave had ended. After a while the police let him go and he got back to his outfit with no reprimands!!!!!!!!!! In 1943, i think it was, he was KIA.
regards
Hans N
i agree with Jonas and the finnish SISU helped stop the russians to!!!!!!!!!
A friend of the family told me a story a few years ago: He and a friend from Korsholm was home at Workleave ( they took care of the years crops). Hi friend said to him when it was time to head back to the frontline that they should desert and head for Sweden. But he said no, he could´nt leave his friends at the front doing all fighting for him, being in Sweden.
They returned to the front anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A relativ was home during a leave and was hunting Seals on the ice outside the island Raippaluoto. The ice broke up and he got stuck and after a period stranded at the swedish coast, got arrested by the swedish police. He told the police that he wanted to get back to the fighting since hes leave had ended. After a while the police let him go and he got back to his outfit with no reprimands!!!!!!!!!! In 1943, i think it was, he was KIA.
regards
Hans N
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Jonas Ström
- Member
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 04 May 2002, 22:57
- Location: Korsholm, Finland