Blackshirt Units with the 8th Army in Russia

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David C. Clarke
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Blackshirt Units with the 8th Army in Russia

Post by David C. Clarke » 26 Feb 2005 01:39

Hi Guys! Some time ago my good friend Lupo gave me this list of Blackshirt units assigned to the 8th:

Blackshirt Group "23 March", including:

Battalion Group "Valle Scrivia"
V CCNN Battalion
XXXIV CCNN Battalion
XLI CCNN Battalion
Battalion Group "Leonessa"
XIV CCNN Battalion
XV CCNN Battalion
XXXVIII CCNN Weapon Battalion

Blackshirt Group "3 January", including:

Battalion Group "Tagliamento"
LXIII CCNN battalion
LXXIX CCNN battalion
LXXIX weapons battalion (Army)
Battalion Group "Montebello"
VI CCNN battalion
XXX CCNN battalion
XII CCNN battalion

Can anyone help flesh these formations out with names of commanders and sectors they fought in during the campaign of December 1942--January 1943? Any information would help, including organization, TO&Es, etc. Thanks in advance! :D

Best Regards,
David

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USAF1986
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Post by USAF1986 » 26 Feb 2005 02:18

David,

As of 10 December 1942, the Blackshirt formations were assigned as follows:

Italian II Corps

Raggruppamento CC.NN. “23 Marzo” (Luogotenente Generale Luigi Martinesi)
• Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Leonessa” (Console Graziano Sardu) – XIV and XV Battaglione CC.NN.; XXXVIII Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
• Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Valle Scrivia” (Console Mario Bertoni) – V and XXXIV Battaglione CC.NN.; XLI Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].

Italian XXXV Corps

Raggruppamento CC.NN. “3 Gennaio” (Luogotenente Generale Filippo Diamanti)
• Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Montebello” (Console Italo Vianini) – VI and XXX Battaglione CC.NN.; XII Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
• Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Tagliamento” (Console Domenico Mittica) – LXIII and LXXIX Battaglione CC.NN.; LXIII Battaglione Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms] (Army).

Best regards,
Shawn

SOURCE: Stato Maggiore Dell’Esercito – Ufficio Storico (General Staff of the Army – Historical Office). Le Operaazioni Delle Unità Italiane Al Fronte Russo (1941-1943). Rome, 2000 (3rd Edition).

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Lupo Solitario
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Post by Lupo Solitario » 26 Feb 2005 18:21

the structure had been debated here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... pagnamento

the dependance was that described by shawn (II and XXXV Corps). I add that blackshirt worked as Corps reserve launching counterattacks during the front breaking phase (usually divided in tactical groups). In retreat they mixed with other units

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Post by David C. Clarke » 26 Feb 2005 18:41

Hi Guys, I'm trying to nail down the Balckshirts present at Chertkovo for the breakout. Sorry if I asked this before. But thanks for the information! :D :D :D

Best Regards,
David

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Lupo Solitario
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Post by Lupo Solitario » 26 Feb 2005 19:00

difficult to say given the extreme mixing of units...anyway I'd tell that, being the largest part of italian units in Tcherkovo from XXXV Corps, they were probably from the "3 Gennaio"...

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Post by David C. Clarke » 27 Feb 2005 01:46

Ah, Thanks Lupo! I found confirmation in Corti, page 148. The Blackshirts assisting in defending Chertkovo were from Montebello and Tagliamento.

Best Regards,
David

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Post by Michi » 27 Feb 2005 03:11

Hello DCC,

maybe someone can shed more light on the address of the following homepage.
(As I saved the pages, I lost the URL)

Regio Esercito - MVSN - Campagna di Russia 1941-1943

On the list are:
63a Legione d'Assalto
Gruppo di Btgg CC.NN. «M» «Montebello»
Gruppo di Btgg CC.NN. «M» «Leonessa»
Gruppo di Btgg CC.NN. «M» «Valle Scrivia»

I don't wanna post more, because I'm not sure about the copyright.


I hope this little info is of any help.



MfG Michi

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Lupo Solitario
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Post by Lupo Solitario » 27 Feb 2005 10:50

mmm...it comes from an italian-speaking site and uses the italian original denominations and not translate them in english as we do.

The title simply tell "Army and MVSN units in Russian campaign from 1941 to 1943"

follows list of regiment-level MVSN units (I suppose there are army ones, too): Tagliamento is indicated with its 1941 name (63rd Legion) and are not indicated the two raggruppamento commands "23 Marzo" and "3 Gennaio"....not so detailed and in some way confused.
Shawn list is really better.

my 2 cents

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Luca Rovetta
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Post by Luca Rovetta » 27 Feb 2005 17:33

I agree with Lupo.
The "Capomanipolo" Battistini Guerriero, of LXXIX btg. CC. NN. gained the gold medal for military valour at Tscherkowo. You can see the explanation at http://www.quirinale.it/onorificenze/De ... rato=45329
Bye

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Post by Michi » 27 Feb 2005 18:41

Somewhere on this page must it be

For the term Chertkovo I have found some different spelling on ONE(!) Italian homepage:
Tscherkov
Certkovo
Tcherkovo
Tchertkowo
and maybe more if you change the v to w and vice versa.

edited:
The Italian >>Milizia Volontaria Sicurezza Nazionale (MVSN)<< on the Eastern Front (in Italian)

MfG Michi

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Lupo Solitario
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Post by Lupo Solitario » 28 Feb 2005 21:18

heh heh...transliterating cyrillic had always been a trouble....
anyway the page is of Vito Zita and AFAIK practically mirrors works of italian army official bureau (so it's a good way to read them without have to buy books) Vito has done a good job.

Message for David I believe there shoud be also many of infos you're looking for on blackshirts...

bye

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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 28 Feb 2005 23:20

Michi wrote:Somewhere on this page must it be

For the term Chertkovo I have found some different spelling on ONE(!) Italian homepage:
Tscherkov
Certkovo
Tcherkovo
Tchertkowo
and maybe more if you change the v to w and vice versa.

edited:
The Italian >>Milizia Volontaria Sicurezza Nazionale (MVSN)<< on the Eastern Front (in Italian)

MfG Michi
Hello:

As far as I know, there is no letter "w" in the Russian alphabet.

Allen/

Abel Ravasz
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Post by Abel Ravasz » 28 Feb 2005 23:32

AFAIK Chertkovo is the correct English and Tschertkowo the correct German traslation, but that was not the point of Michi's post, I suppose...

Abel

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Post by FB » 01 Mar 2005 10:29

Allen Milcic wrote:
Michi wrote:Somewhere on this page must it be

For the term Chertkovo I have found some different spelling on ONE(!) Italian homepage:
Tscherkov
Certkovo
Tcherkovo
Tchertkowo
and maybe more if you change the v to w and vice versa.

edited:
The Italian >>Milizia Volontaria Sicurezza Nazionale (MVSN)<< on the Eastern Front (in Italian)

MfG Michi
Hello:

As far as I know, there is no letter "w" in the Russian alphabet.

Allen/
And there's no "W", (nor a "K") in the Italian alphabet too. But: practically all the east front city names in Italian literature have the following origin:

The maps used by the Italian HQ were Germans, with the German transliteration of the Russian names (hence, I believe, the uso of "W" where the sound was a "V" for an Italian. In German the "V" is pronounced as an Italian "F" or of "TCH" for "C", as in German "C" is pronounced more or less like an Italian "Z"). Only major Russian cities had an Italian correspondance, like Mosca (Moscow), Kiev, etc. For the other town names in literature during the years it was sometimes taken the German transliteration "as is", some other times this trasliteration was re-transliterated into Italian Tchertkowo = Certc(k)ovo etc. . Needless to say this is a little bit confusing, but I'm sure this is not an Italian-only problem, being that not only the Italians had to render in Latin alphabet word coming from a Cirillic alphabet.

Best regards

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David C. Clarke
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Post by David C. Clarke » 01 Mar 2005 16:03

Excellent post FB!! :D

Personally, I've always been amused at how many different ways one could spell "Tatsinskaya". And of course, there is the slightly ominous fact that some Russsian place names occur in different parts of Russia, which makes looking for particular villages an exciting experience. :D

But then, that's one of the challenges of studying the Ostfront!

Best Regards,
David

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