Transport ships of USSR in 1941-1945 - any info!!

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kgvm
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Post by kgvm » 28 Jul 2007 20:07

Some additional corrections to ship pictures in the Fesco list:
"Luga" of 1918 ( http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f423_1.jpg ) is Luga of 1922, the former German "Irmgard" sold to Russia in 1932
"Emba" of 1917 ( http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f807_1.jpg ) is the Emba of 1944, the former American T 2-tanker "Shawnee Trail"
"Valerij Chkalov" ( http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f141_1.jpg ) is not the former "Grant P. Marsh", but the first "Valerij Chkalov" of Liberty-type, ex "Alexander Baranof", which broke in two 12.12.43. Both parts were saved and towed first to Adak, Alaska, then to Kodiak and at last to Vancouver. There the parts were rejoined and became "Alexander Baranof" under US-flag again. The ship was scrapped in Philadelphia 1965 (the former name given by Fesco for the first "Valerij Chkalov" is in error, "Louis Agossiz" became "Emilian Pugachev" - and there Fesco has the correct ex-name!

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Post by kgvm » 28 Jul 2007 20:11

With respect to the "Luga" of 1922 mentioned in my last post I would like to know her fate.
I have sources saying she was bombed and sunk at Kronstadt 22.06.41, while other sources mention her as a victim of the Juminda-mines, sunk 28./29.08.41.

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Post by kgvm » 28 Jul 2007 20:19

The German "Merkur" of 1903 was seized by Soviet authorities 18.08.23 and became "Lozovskij" and later "Altay" (fate wanted).
I would like to know more about the whereabouts and the reasons for the seizure? May be it was because the "Merkur" was a former Russian ship??
If so, were there other cases of "recaptures"?

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Post by mjbollinger » 31 Jul 2007 12:47

Hi,

1. Yes, MERKUR was formerly a Russian ship:

1903 Completed as VERA (Hessler Shipping Co.)
1909 PETR BERG (Northern SS Co.)
1915 TRANSPORT N.48 (Black Sea Fleet) requisitioned
1918 Probably taken under control by German and White Forces
1920 SAN PIETRO (Soc. Maritime & Commerciale de France)
1922 MERKUR (Flensburger Schiffsparten Verein-A.G)
1923 Seized by Soviets at Arkhangel'sk 18.08.23 as Soviet property
1924 LOZOVSKII (STF-SGK)
1933 LOZOVSKII (STF-DGK)
1935 LOZOVSKII (DGMP) 03.35
1949 ALTAY (SaGMP)
1970 Deleted LRS

There were several other cases of recaptures as well.

2. There is uncertainty regarding the ultimate fate of LUGA. Here is what I have recorded:

1922 Completed as IRMGARD (Hamburg-Bremer Afrika Linie A.G.) 05.22
1926 IRMGARD (Norddeutscher Lloyd)
1932 LUGA (STF-BGK)
1934 LUGA (BGMP) 15.03.34
1940 Strafed by German aircraft 06.22.40
1941 VT-518 (BF) as transport in Talllin evacuation convoy 3
1941 Mined/damaged off Cape Juminda 59°47'N 25°25'E with 300 killed at 2310 on 28.08.41
1941 1200 wounded men transferred to SKUNDRA; ship scuttled by crew in absence of tow
or
1941 Crew removed and sunk by cutter MO N.502 at 0635 on 29.08.41

3. In case anyone is interested, here is the history of EMBA

1944 Launched as SHAWNEE TRAIL 31.05.44
1944 Completed as EMBA (DGMP) under Lend Lease 28.06.44
1944 Strafed by U.S. aircraft on 14.10.44
1948 Returned to US on 03.48 in Japan
1948 USNS SHAWNEE TRAIL AO-142 (NTS) 25.05.48
1949 USNS SHAWNEE T-AO-142 (MSTS) 1.10.49
1957 Reserve fleet at Suisun Bay 01.11.57
1972 Assigned to NDRF
1973 Sold for scrapping to Union Minerals & Alloys, 10.08.73

EMBA was one of the few Lend Lease ships returned by the Soviets after WWII. (Several others were returned during the war.) I just finished writing that section of my manuscript. An interesting story.

MB

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Post by BIGpanzer » 01 Aug 2007 00:35

Marty wrote about Soviet-built Caspian tanker "Agamali-Ogly" [12600 t, "Lenin"-type]:
1942 Bombed and damaged late 1942 off Astrakhan
1971 Converted to floating storage

Do you know more info about that case [damage by German bombers in 1942]? Tanker "Agamali-Ogly" participated in unique operation in 1943 [the original video from 1943 is known] - the ship tuged many floating tanks and cisterns with oil because of shortage of tankers on Caspian Sea for transportation of oil in large amounts to the front.

Marty wrote about "Luga"
There is uncertainty regarding the ultimate fate of LUGA. Here is what I have recorded:
1922 Completed as IRMGARD (Hamburg-Bremer Afrika Linie A.G.) 05.22
1926 IRMGARD (Norddeutscher Lloyd)
1932 LUGA (STF-BGK)
1934 LUGA (BGMP) 15.03.34
1940 Strafed by German aircraft 06.22.40
1941 VT-518 (BF) as transport in Talllin evacuation convoy 3
1941 Mined/damaged off Cape Juminda 59°47'N 25°25'E with 300 killed at 2310 on 28.08.41
1941 1200 wounded men transferred to SKUNDRA; ship scuttled by crew in absence of tow
or
1941 Crew removed and sunk by cutter MO N.502 at 0635 on 29.08.41

kgvm wrote:
With respect to the "Luga" of 1922 mentioned in my last post I would like to know her fate.
I have sources saying she was bombed and sunk at Kronstadt 22.06.41, while other sources mention her as a victim of the Juminda-mines, sunk 28./29.08.41.


"Luga" was attacked by German aircraft off Kronshtadt (Krasnogorsky roadstead, Island Kotlin) 22.06.1941 [not 1940] at 03:30, but there were no serious (or any?) damages. The same time, at 03:45 [just before the German-Soviet war started] Soviet [ex-Latvian] steamer "Gaisma" [3077 brt] with timber on board (for Germany, route Riga-Lubeck) was attacked by German motor torpedo boats S-59 and S-60 and torpedoed (2 torpedos) off Gotland [57°00'N 18°48'E ]. 8 Latvian/Russian crewmembers from 32 were lost [2 were captured, 6 were killed in water by MG fire from torpedo boats], the rest 24 men under the command of mate Jan Balodis reached Latvian seashore on life-boat in 14 hours and buried mortally wounded captain N. Duve there. The radio message from "Gaisma" [04:15] -"Torpedoed..."Gaisma" is sinking....Goodbye..." was helpful: at 05:00 it was ordered for all Soviet ships on Baltic Sea to return back to home ports immediately.

AFAIK "Luga" [2391 brt, military transport VT-518] transported 1226 wounded men from Tallinn [convoy No. 3]. The ship was exploded on mine 28.08.1941 [at 23:10] and nose hold was flooded. 1206 wounded men, medical staff and part of crewmembers were transferred to steamer "Skrunda" [not "Skundra"] during several hours ["Skrunda" had no passengers during that mission and was sent by convoy commander to help "Luga"]. After that captain of "Luga" V.M. Mironov ordered to open flood holes and "Luga" sank. Patrol boat MO-502 rescued 17 crewmembers and mine-sweeper "Tobol" - 9. Captain and other crewmembers on life-boat reached diesel ship "Vtoraya pyatiletka" in several hours. There were two different data about losses I've read - 300 men or only 20 men, and the last one is much more possible taking into consideration the damage of only nose hold, rescue of almost all wounded men [passengers] + medical staff, and quite small amount of crewmembers for the ship of 2391 brt [part of them were transferred to "Skrunda", 26 were rescued by escort ships and the rest crewmembers including captain reached diesel ship "Vtoraya pyatiletka" on life-boat]. It should be noted that "Skrunda" was damaged by German aviation next day, but all men were rescued by hydrographic ship "Lood", tug and escort vessels [patrol boats and mine-sweepers].

Here is the quite detailed article about Baltic Navy rescue service during Tallinn-Kronshtadt convoys in 1941 - http://www.old.mil.ru/viz-05-05-50-57.pdf I hope it will be helpful for your book.

Regards, BP
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 01 Aug 2007 23:32, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by mjbollinger » 01 Aug 2007 13:15

Hi BP,

I've seen both accounts of the loss of Luga and role of Skrunda. I concur with you. The version where the captain orders the ship scuttled seems more likely. It is the version presented by Platonov for one thing and he seems to be authoritative in this area.

I'll check my files for the reference to Agamali Ogly. As you know, I'm not really focused on ships operating in the Caspian.

MB

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Post by BIGpanzer » 01 Aug 2007 14:38

Thanks, Marty!

It will be interesting to find additional info about attack of German bombers against Caspian tanker "Agamali-Ogly". I found short mention that tanker was attacked and damaged (burnt, repaired soon) by German bombers at Baku port [so was it differ case from Astrakhan incident or the same (in this case which info is correct - Baku or Astrakhan?), I don't know].

The text fragment you've posted about transportaion of Polish division by Caspian tankers from Krasnovodsk to Iran mentions "Agamali-Ogly" as steamer. You know. of course, that those Soviet-built Caspian tankers were diesel ships with two diesels [for example, first tankers of the class "Stalin" and "Andrei Zhdanov" had German diesels MAN K 4z-60/100 (1200-1400 hp each, 110-120 rpm), "Vyacheslav Molotov" had native diesels K 6Ts-54/90 already].

kgvm wrote:
In fact it's the "Castillo Ampudia" (ex "Katayama"), the typical ex Dutch Kingpost/mast combination is clearly visible....http://www.kroonvaarders.com/alfabet/js ... jason2.htm

Here is some info about capture of Soviet ship "Katayama" by warship of Nationalist Spain I could only find.
From http://www.lechaim.ru/ARHIV/101/hasin.htm [journal "Lehaim", 2000, No.9] Babel Fish translation:
This happened in the Mediterranean on 17 October, 1938. The Soviet steamship "Katayama", which belongs to Black Sea Steamship Company, assigned to the port Odessa, went with the load of wheat from Mariupol into the English port Liverpool. At night not far from Malta steamship suddenly illuminated searchlight. On the bridge of "Katayama" stood watch the second assistant to captain. At four am of his it had to replace by Bertha Yakovlevna Rapoport [woman, first assistant to captain - the first case in Soviet merchant fleet, BP].
After understanding that the flash of searchlight is not by chance - the Mediterranean was patrolled by ships of Spanish fascists, watch assistant caused to the bridge of captain. Meanwhile warship approached a steamship, they signaled from it: "Immediately you will stop. In the case of insubordination you will be shot". To captain T. Perederij it remained nothing other how to stop motion. From the warship they went down boat, and officer in tracking of the armed soldiers soon rose onboard the Soviet steamship. Bertha awoke from the incomprehensible cries and the heavy footfall of boots. On the deck Franco officer questioned the captain: - "Where you do follow? What is in the holds? Where are the ship documents?" Captain quietly answered: - "We go to England. In the holds - wheat. Can verify". After noting Bertha, he asked: - "Bring documents". When Bertha Yakovlevna in the regular tunic with the gold stripes on the sleeves again appeared on the deck and gave documents to Franco officer, he surprisingly opened the mouth: - "Who is this woman?". "Senior assistant", - answered captain. The amazed officer silently began to turn over the pages of papers...

To the dawn on the order of francists Soviet steamship took course on Spanish island Majorca. In the pilot room next to Bertha interceded to the watch Franco seaman stood. He strictly followed the course, by which it went now "Katayama". - "For which purpose did you arrest us?" - asked him in English Bertha Yakovlevna. - "You ascertained that in the holds we have only wheat". Francist did not answer. With the arrival into the port Palma almost entire crew together with the captain was sent for the concentration camp. On that, where them they will transport, to seamen declared the black-bearded fascist rising himself onboard the steamship. Swinging by Colt, it threatened: "For the escape - shooting!" On the steamship remained Bertha even other five seamen - boatswain, two sailors, the machinist and stoker. Departing, captain said to Bertha: - "To you pass my authorities. You are held. Do not yield on the provocation..." To it they did not give to agree. Soldiers began to drive away seamen to the moorage, where the covered truck already awaited them. When truck was hidden behind the winches of port, boatswain approached Bertha Yakovlevna: - "Well here. Now you are our captain". She sadly smiled to it as the answer...
To the following morning, as always, upon Bertha Yakovlevny's command on the stern flagstaff was raised the national flag of the USSR. After a certain time alongside drove up the passenger machine, from which jumped out black-bearded. After seeing flag, it yelled and waved by hands, showing so that the flag they would immediately go down. After understanding that the Soviet seamen do not intend to carry out its command, it rose on the ladder and broke into a run aft with the explicit intention to tear away flag. But it there awaited Bertha Yakovlevna. After shaking by hair, she decisively stated: - "thus far we remain aboard, you will not laugh to touch our flag. Deck of steamship - territory of my native land, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics!" Having maliciously sparkled by eyes, fascist stepped back. But in the evening on the moorage appeared already familiar to seamen the covered truck. They sent men into the concentration camp. Bertha Yakovlevna they transported into the female prison. In the close fetid camera ten women was situated, without considering Bertha. These were wife and the mothers of republic soldiers, undertaken by francists in hostage. After learning, that their new neighbor the navigator of Soviet steamship, Spaniards related to it with the special attention and the heat. They at night caused it to the examination. - "Acknowledge, you conveyed weapon for the Republicans!" - began to bawl to it inspector. - "Your captain protocol about this already signed!" Bertha Yakovlevna ridiculed herself: - "This is a lie! No one of my comrades such protocol will sign..." From the strong blow it lost consciousness. It came to already in the camera, the Spaniards bustled about near it. Sad prison working days stretched themselves. They fed abominably. Slop bucket was used for the washing. They conducted rarely to the jaunts, and Bertha Yakovlevna was deprived them completely, special regime was applied to it. And it declared hunger strike. News about this flew around all cameras. Prison began to drone.
Granted very chief of prison it was maximally polite it promised to it in the environment of large formation that if Bertha, as it her named, will end hunger strike, it will created more favorable conditions. - "Not to me, but by all", by weak voice required Bertha Yakovlevna, after showing its neighbors. Chief smiled and left. But at night Bertha Yakovlevna they transported into the concentration camp. Now it is vein in the barracks after the barbed wire. The Spaniards, which warred on the side of Republic and which fell into captivity to the fascists, were its neighbors on the bunks: nurses, telephonists, staff typists. They rapidly made friends and as could they helped each other to survive under the inhuman conditions. Sometimes it obtained news from the adjacent camp, where they contained seamen "Katayama". But the long-awaited day of release here came! To say good-bye to Bertha Yakovlevna arrived almost entire concentration camp. Spaniards even entrusted to it the small bouquet of field flowers, assembled unknown where. And for the first time in the long months of captivity it could not hold in control tears... But there was then encounter with Odessa! Embraces, kisses. And - here sea of the flowers. The day, when Bertha Yakovlevna stepped to the ground of her city, was happiest in her life...


kgvm wrote:
http://www.buques.org/Navieras/Elcano/Elcano-1_E.htm
This page has pictures of the following former Sovet vessels:
"Castillo Bellver" ex "Lensovet"
"Castillo Penafiel" ex "Smidovich"
"Castillo Ampudia" ex "Katayama"
"Castillo Aulencia" ex "Tsyurupa" (not ex "Skvortsov Stepanov", sorry, my mistake )

Do you know the details of capture of Soviet ships "Lensovet" and "Tsyurupa"?
About "Smidovich" (from North Steamship Company, the ship participated in transportation of military aid to Spanish Republic) I only know from the short mention that crewmembers and captain V.V. Glotov were imprisoned in Spain for ~20 months.

kgvm wrote:
http://www.estudiomar.org.es/Cronicas%2 ... agios.html ("Potishev", see under "Castillo Olite")

Not "Potishev", but "Postyshev". Do you know the details of Spanish capture of that ship?


Regards, BP

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Post by BIGpanzer » 01 Aug 2007 17:19

kgvm wrote:
But the two pictures show different ships. The second one is indeed the "Pioner" of 1929 (see also this older link posted by BIGpanzer: http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/minesweepers/pic/pioner.jpg and http://techmol.narod.ru/TM/IST_SER/1976/s07_.jpg ), while the first one is probably the "Pioner" built in 1935 for the Baltic Shipping of Leningrad.

Yes, the Fesco site about Far-Eastern merchant ships confuses these two cargo ships with the same name and of similar to some degree design. Nose part and deckhouse shapes as well as mast's configuration are differ - Soviet-built "Pioner" [ http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/minesweepers/pic/pioner.jpg ] and Finnish-built "Pioner" [most probably, this one - http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... oner_1.jpg ]. Also Soviet-built "Pioneer" had larger displacement.

kgvm wrote:
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fesco/pic/f12_1.jpg
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fesco/pic/f12_2.jpg
The first picture doesn't show the "Azerbaidshan" of 1932, but the former "Beriya", built in 1935 for the Kaspian Sea, and only in 1953 renamed "Azerbaidshan"!

With respect to "Azerbaizhan" take a look at the bridges.
The first picture has an open bridge very similar to that of the "Lenin"
http://techmol.narod.ru/TM/IST_SER/1976/s09_.jpg
while the second one has a closed bridge underbuilding like the "Moskva"
http://techmol.narod.ru/TM/IST_SER/1976/s12_.jpg


I see. Fesco site again confuses two ships which had the same name [I guess because of relatively small amount of known photos of Soviet merchant ships of WWII period]. Photo you've mentioned [ http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fesco/pic/f12_1.jpg ] shows tanker "Azerbaidzhan" more similar to "Lenin"-type than to "Moskva"-type indeed, the only problem is design of rear deckhouse [compare with both images from http://techmol.narod.ru ] - probably, rear deckhouse of Caspian "Azerbaidzhan" (ex-"Beriya") was modified after WWII.
The second photo you've mentioned shows famous because of PQ-17 tanker "Azerbaidzhan" [medium tanker of "Moskva"-type for Black Sea] indeed - http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fesco/pic/f12_2.jpg
As Fesco describes only Far-Eastern ships all photos of corresponding "Azerbaidzhan" should represent tankers of "Moskva"-type because tankers of "Lenin"-type served on Caspian Sea only.

Regards, BP
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 02 Aug 2007 18:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by BIGpanzer » 01 Aug 2007 22:52

kgvm wrote:
"Peet" was in a neutral port (Istada = Ystad, Sweden), but in 1941 it became the German "Frauenburg" and was lost off Windau 07.11.41 hitting a mine. Why did she leave the neutral port and how was she seized by the Germans?

I know that 3 Soviet merchant ships [all belonged to Estonian Steamship Company] were interned in Sweden in June 1941 - "Maj" [1549 brt, captain J. Saar] in Stockholm, "Peet" [2011 brt, captain A. Nymm] in Ystad and "Toomas" [1372 brt].
"Peet"/"Frauenburg" was built in 1913 by Greenock & Grangemouth Dockyard Co.
She sank on November 7, 1941 because of mine explosion, eight miles North of Ventspils, according to several sources.

kgvm wrote:
Meantime I've found an internetsite relating to "Peet"/"Frauenburg".
http://warsailors.com/forum/read.php?1,920,927
To give a short translation of the German text:
"Peet" was in Bergen 09.04.40. Laid up in Dolvik. Captain refused to raise Soviet flag. After German - Soviet negotiations in the first months of 1941 transferred to Soviet registry.
After the German attack on UdSSR with German cargo went to a Swedish port. Assured by German authorities to stay under Estonian flag for her old owner "Peet" left the Swedish port 10.08.41, but was taken prize!! Only in 1944 a small indemnity was granted to the owner.


I've also found that Estonian "Peet" was in Norway with a cargo on board when the war in Norway broke out and the ship was forced in June 1941 by the Germans to go to a Swedish and later to a German port with the cargo, the Germans took over the ship and renamed her as "Frauenburg".
09.04.40 In Bergen vorgefunden während der 'Norwegenaktion',später
freigelassen und in Dolvik aufgelegt. Auch nach der Annexion Estlands gelingt es den sowj. Behörden nicht den Kapitän zu zwingen die sowj. Flagge zu setzen. Anfang 1941 werden die baltischen Schiffe in Skandinavien in dt./sowj. Verhandlungen der UdSSR
'überlassen' und PEET kommt so doch noch unter sowj. Flagge. Bei Kriegsausbruch mit der UdSSR läuft das Schiff mit dt. Ladung in Schweden ein und erhält vom Auswärtigen Amt usw. die Zusicherung weiter unter estnischer Flagge für seine Reederei fahren zu dürfen im dt. Machtbereich. PEET läuft daraufhin mit der dt. Ladung am 10.08.41 nach Deutschland aus und wird auf höchster Weisung hin abgefangen und als Prise aufgebracht
- from http://warsailors.com/forum/read.php?1,920,927

Regards, BP
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Post by BIGpanzer » 02 Aug 2007 01:02

I wrote:
"Luga" was attacked by German aircraft off Kronshtadt (Krasnogorsky roadstead, Island Kotlin) 22.06.1941 at 03:30, but there were no serious (or any?) damages.

Additional info about that incident took place just before the war started. One German aircraft opened MG fire against steamer "Luga" [captain V. Mironov] at Krasnogorsky roadstead during ship's run Hango-Leningrad. "Luga" got 20 bullet holes, light cable was broken, watch-standing assistant was wounded.

kgvm wrote:
Some additional corrections to ship pictures in the Fesco list:
"Luga" of 1918 ( http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f423_1.jpg ) is Luga of 1922, the former German "Irmgard" sold to Russia in 1932

Fesco list mentions only Far-Eastern ships and the site mentiones another ship under the name "Luga" [as it is mentioned that the ship was built in 1918 in USA and served in Soviet Far-Eastern Steamship Company in 1943-1948 as Lend-Lease ship, sank in 1948 in La Perouse Strait]. Am I right that you guess that the ship on corresponding photo is not Pacific "Luga" [ex-USA "De Soto"] as it should be but Baltic "Luga" [ex-German "Irmgrad"] which exploded on mine in August 1941? Do you have the photos of Pacific "Luga" and Baltic "Luga" for comparison?

Regards, BP
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Post by BIGpanzer » 02 Aug 2007 08:34

mjbollinger wrote:
1903 Completed as VERA (Hessler Shipping Co.)
1909 PETR BERG (Northern SS Co.)
1915 TRANSPORT N.48 (Black Sea Fleet) requisitioned
1918 Probably taken under control by German and White Forces
1920 SAN PIETRO (Soc. Maritime & Commerciale de France)
1922 MERKUR (Flensburger Schiffsparten Verein-A.G)
1923 Seized by Soviets at Arkhangel'sk 18.08.23 as Soviet property
1924 LOZOVSKII (STF-SGK)
1933 LOZOVSKII (STF-DGK)
1935 LOZOVSKII (DGMP) 03.35
1949 ALTAY (SaGMP)
1970 Deleted LRS


http://www.odin.tc/books/steam/img/76.jpg [steamer "Lozovsky"]. The ship participated in North-East polar expedition in 1934.
And photos of other Soviet merchant ships we've discussed already - http://www.odin.tc/books/steam/II.asp

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Post by BIGpanzer » 02 Aug 2007 23:03

kgvm wrote:
"Emba" of 1917 ( http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f807_1.jpg ) is the Emba of 1944, the former American T 2-tanker "Shawnee Trail"


Fesco site [database of Soviet Far-Eastern ships] mentions two "Emba".
1. Tanker "Emba" [6300 grt] built in USA in 1917 and received by USSR in 1944 as Lend-Lease help. It is mentioned that the ship was returned back to USA 28.08.1944 because of technical reasons.
Photo - http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f807_1.jpg
2. Tanker "Emba" [10448 grt, ex-"Shawnee Trail"] built in USA in 1944 and received by USSR in 1944 as Lend-Lease help. The ship was returned back to USA in Japan in 1948.
Photo - http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f804_1.jpg [sistership "Elbrus", ex-"Muir Woods"].
For sure both photos represent the tankers of identical type [T 2]. Do you have the photo of "Emba" [6300 grt] built in USA in 1917?

Marty wrote:
EMBA was one of the few Lend Lease ships returned by the Soviets after WWII. (Several others were returned during the war.)
1944 Strafed by U.S. aircraft on 14.10.44

Do you know additional details about incident 14.10.1944?
Fesco site mentions the following about tankers-sisterships: "Emba" [ex-"Shawnee Trail"] was returned back in 1948 in Japan, "Elbrus" [ex-"Muir Woods"] was returned back in 1948 in Japan, "Taganrog" [ex-"Cedar Greek"] was returned back in 1948, "Donbass" [ex-"Beacon Rock"] broke in two parts during run USA-Vladivostok in 1946 and was scrapped in USA, "Krasnaya Armiya" [ex-"Pioneer Valley"] was returned back in 1948.

It should be noted that Soviet merchant fleet had also tanker "Emba" ["Embaneft", 15874 tons] of own design [6 were built in 1927-1938, see somewhere above here]. All were used by Sovtanker in 1930s along routes from Black Sea to Baltic and Pacific. Soviet-built "Emba" was damaged by air bomb off Kerch in January 1942 and the ship was towed to Sukhumi in May 1942 where the tanker was torpedoed by U-24 30.07.1943.

kgvm wrote:
"Valerij Chkalov" ( http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f141_1.jpg ) is not the former "Grant P. Marsh", but the first "Valerij Chkalov" of Liberty-type, ex "Alexander Baranof", which broke in two 12.12.43. Both parts were saved and towed first to Adak, Alaska, then to Kodiak and at last to Vancouver. There the parts were rejoined and became "Alexander Baranof" under US-flag again. The ship was scrapped in Philadelphia 1965 (the former name given by Fesco for the first "Valerij Chkalov" is in error, "Louis Agossiz" became "Emilian Pugachev" - and there Fesco has the correct ex-name!

I see. Fesco gives the following info:
1. "Valery Chkalov" [ex-"Grand P. Marsh"], ship of "Liberty"-type, built in USA in 1943, served in DGMP [Far-Eastern State Steamship Company] in 1943-1967 as Lend-Lease ship. The ship broke in two parts near Kamchatka seashore in 1951 and rear part was lost, was repaired in China. Removed from service in 1967.
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f141_1.jpg
2. "Valery Chkalov" [ex-"Loves Agassis"], also ship of "Liberty"-type, built in USA in 1943, served in DGMP in 1943, the ship broke in two parts during run Sovgavan-USA because of storm, given for scrapping to USA.
3. "Emelian Pugachev" [ex-"Lauis Agossiz"], also ship of "Liberty"-type, built in USA in 1943, served in DGMP in 1943-1977 as Lend-Lease ship, removed from service in 1977.
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f243_1.jpg

So am I right that you think that the photo shows not ex-"Grand P. Marsh" [broken] but ex-"Loves Agasis" ["Alexander Baranov" in reality, also broken]? Simplified "Liberty"-type ships of mass production suffered from low hull strength and could be broken in two parts during storm or even significant waves. Nevertheless, some Soviet ships of this type [USSR used 46 ships of "Liberty"-type] were in service [Black Sea, Pacific] till the end of 1960s-beg.1970s [several lied up "Liberties" could be seen in Vladivostok and Murmansk in 1990s even].

Regards, BP
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 03 Aug 2007 21:26, edited 1 time in total.

kgvm
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Location: Hannover, Germany

Post by kgvm » 03 Aug 2007 14:04

BIGpanzer asked about details of the capture of some ships by the Spanish nationalists.
All I have is the following:
"Lensovet" captured in the straits of Gibraltar 19.03.38
"Postyshev" captured in the straits of Gibraltar by the auxiliary cruiser "V. Puchol" 31.05.38
"Tsyurupa" captured in the Mediterranean by the cruiser "Almirante Cervera" 23.10.38
The other ships captured by the nationalists were:
"Katayama" captured in the Mediterranean by the minelayer "Vulcano" 17.10.38 (see the story posted by BIGpanzer)
"Max Hoelts" captured in the Mediterranean by the minelayer "Vulcano" 02.11.38
"Skvortsov Stepanov" captured in the Mediterranean by the cruiser "Canarias" 26.05.38
"Smidovich" captured near Bilbao by the destroyer "Velasco" 10.01.37
To complete the losses in the Spanish civil war:
"Blagoev" torpedoed and sunk in the Aegean Sea by the Italian submarine "Settembrini" 03.09.37
"Komsomol" sunk in the western Mediterranean near Cape Palos by the cruiser "Canarias" 14.12.36
"Timiryazev" torpedoed and sunk near Tizgirt (Algeria) by the Italian destroyer "Turbine" 31.08.37
Regards, Klaus Günther

kgvm
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Posts: 406
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 20:14
Location: Hannover, Germany

Post by kgvm » 03 Aug 2007 14:25

BIGpanzer wrote:

"I see. Fesco gives the following info:
1. "Valery Chkalov" [ex-"Grand P. Marsh"], ship of "Liberty"-type, built in USA in 1943, served in DGMP [Far-Eastern State Steamship Company] in 1943-1967 as Lend-Lease ship. The ship broke in two parts near Kamchatka seashore in 1951 and rear part was lost, was repaired in China. Removed from service in 1967.
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f141_1.jpg
2. "Valery Chkalov" [ex-"Loves Agassis"], also ship of "Liberty"-type, built in USA in 1943, served in DGMP in 1943, the ship broke in two parts during run Sovgavan-USA because of storm, given for scrapping to USA.
3. "Emelian Pugachev" [ex-"Lauis Agossiz"], also ship of "Liberty"-type, built in USA in 1943, served in DGMP in 1943-1977 as Lend-Lease ship, removed from service in 1977.
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f243_1.jpg

So am I right that you think that the photo shows not ex-"Grand P. Marsh" [broken] but ex-"Loves Agasis" ["Alexander Baranov" in reality, also broken]? WWII "Liberty"-type ships of mass production suffered from low hull strength and could be broken in two parts during storm or even significant waves. Nevertheless, some ships of this type were used by USSR [Black Sea, Pacific] till the end of 1970s [several lied up "Liberties" could be seen in Vladivostok and Murmansk in 1990s even]."

Well, didn't know that the second "Valery Chkalov" broke in two, too :( .
But if you look at the picture ( http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... f141_1.jpg ) you see the ship is armed. I assume that in 1951 Sovet merchant vessels didn't carry weapons. Furthermore the picture shows the rearpart of the ship, which was lost in the incident of 1951. Therefore even with the new information I'm convinced the picture shows the ship broken in two in 1943!
Regards, Klaus Günther

kgvm
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Posts: 406
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 20:14
Location: Hannover, Germany

Post by kgvm » 03 Aug 2007 14:52

BIGpanzer wrote:
Fesco list mentions only Far-Eastern ships and the site mentiones another ship under the name "Luga" [as it is mentioned that the ship was built in 1918 in USA and served in Soviet Far-Eastern Steamship Company in 1943-1948 as Lend-Lease ship, sank in 1948 in La Perouse Strait]. Am I right that you guess that the ship on corresponding photo is not Pacific "Luga" [ex-USA "De Soto"] as it should be but Baltic "Luga" [ex-German "Irmgrad"] which exploded on mine in August 1941? Do you have the photos of Pacific "Luga" and Baltic "Luga" for comparison?


Well, I have a photo of "Irmgard", but only in a book, therefore I cannot post it for copyright reasons :(
But two of the sister ships of the Baltic "Luga" served with FESCO, too: "Svir" and "Volkhov" and they have pictures of them. You can see clearly the lowered deckpart in the foreship (in German called "Versaufloch", which you can translate with "drown hole")
Regards, Klaus Günther

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