Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
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Andrzej Ditrich
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by Andrzej Ditrich » 23 Jul 2011 14:41

T10 from Denmark: bunker and launching cart.

Brgds
@ndrew
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Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 25 Jul 2011 08:18

Gentlemen!

This subject about German torpedoes launched from bunkers and floating batteries are pretty much new to me. The big question is,were there any reports about their use in combat action against the invading Allied forces? I know that Norway and Denmark under German occuppation had not had a chance to use coastal defence torpedoes in action but what about the rest of German occuppied European coasts?

Sincerely,

Edward L. Hsiao

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Kalinor
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by Kalinor » 04 Aug 2011 10:42

from what i have read torpedo launchers were mostly sited in and around norway due to the confinement of the coast and its fijords, the majority of the atlantic wall coast was to open to be effectivly defended by such weapons (info taken from the osprey atlantic wall 2 book)
Jon from Lincolnshire

Wishes he lived in a country that has real bunkers

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Natter
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by Natter » 19 Sep 2011 20:41

Natter wrote:Another view of the battery at Vlissingen:
Another photo from Vlissingen - source: "Waffen Revue" nr. 35, article: "Sturm-Tiger mit 38-cm Raketenwerfer RW 61", caption: "Abschuss einer 38cm R Tg von einer Küstenbefestigung der Marine" (yeah, right..!).

A question: The uniforms on a couple of the Vlissingen-photos seem a little "odd" to me. Was this battery by any chance established by the dutch before WW2?
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jopaerya
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by jopaerya » 20 Sep 2011 15:49

Hello Natter

There a lot of picture's of the torpedo batterie in the BaMa Koblenz ( 2KBK 890 and 293/1451 )
AFAIK the batterie was build by the Germans and was not Dutch , I agree with you that the uniforms
are very casual ( jackets and boiler suits ) and not all standard Kriegsmarine clothing . On your
last picture you can see a Kriegmarine officer .

Regards Jos

P.S. I have some small BaMa pictures from the torpedo batterie in Vliisngen , if you want them
just P.M. me with your E-mailadres .

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Natter
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by Natter » 20 Sep 2011 16:10

Thanks for the info!

PM coming...

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Natter
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by Natter » 26 Oct 2011 20:15

The US report "Interim Report No 1 - German Torpedo Battery (Shore Controlled Torpedo), 1 August 1945" seems to have been created as part of the evaluation of german weapon-systems, and the posibilites for implementing similar systems in the US (in this case for harbour-defences). Most is known already, and obviously some of the info here is wrong (especially concerning Norway), but still interesting I think. I wonder if the remaining ca. 115 torpedoes were found (and where).

Here is a quote from the report:

3. References.
a. Supplementary Naval Intelligence Papers (SNIP) CB 03122 D(6) Shore Controlled Torpedo (SPINNE) 32/45.
b. US Navy ConNavEu X 2626-S45 report London 29 June 45 (Lerche).
c. German Torpedo T-10, British report STR 393, Nov 44, Torpedo Establishment, Greenock.
d. US Naval Technical Mission In Europe, Shore Based Torpedo Launching Sites in Denmark - Letter Report 236-45 (Y).
e. CAS Library, Ft. Monroe, Va. - Ft. Totten, N.Y. Torpedo School report 1900-04 "Fish" shore controlled torpedo.

4. Information contained in references paragraphs 3a and c indicate that torpedoes launched from carts or prepared sites and controlled by an operator on shore through a single insulated wire paid out from the torpedo were designed, manufactured, and installed as a weapon of the German Coastal Defense Commands in Norway and Denmark, and probably were used to a limited extent in Belgium, Holland, and France.

a. The principal components of the torpedo battery are:
(1) Torpedo T-10 or equivalent.
(2) Launching cart.
(3) Splinter proof shelter for torpedo.
{U) Control - shore unit.
(5) Control Station, (pill box or dugout for one man).

b. Propelled through the water at a speed of 30 miles per hour and capable of 10,000 yards range, this torpedo can be controlled through one small wire in direction and in depth of submergence by one operator on shore. The charge of hexamite provides fire power sufficient to destroy underwater craft and small surface vessels, and to seriously damage large naval craft.

c. The small size of this weapon and absence of sound or flash on launching make it a difficult target for airplane or naval vessels to locate and destroy.

5. a. T-10 torpedoes have been located in the following Danish localities:
Helsingor 27
Fyn 13
Strib 12
Esbjorg 33

b. Torpedo firing sites have been located in Denmark at:
Helsingor Kronborg Castle
Rogle Klint
Tisvildeleje
Strib
Horneland
Treldenoes
Frederica

6. Pre-invasion intelligence reports indicate torpedo batteries located in Norway as follows:
Narvik 6
Nordfjord 2
Trondheim 6
Bergen 2
Kristansand 4
Oslo 2

7. A shipment of these torpedoes is being made to the US Naval Ordnance Investigation Laboratory, Indian Head, Md.

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Natter
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by Natter » 24 Mar 2013 11:53

jopaerya wrote:There a lot of picture's of the torpedo batterie in the BaMa Koblenz ( 2KBK 890 and 293/1451 )
I've been told that BaMa Koblenz is the most likely place to find information (foremost photos and drawings) of the german torpedobatteries established in Norway.
However, I have no way to get there to investgate myself in the forseable future, so I wonder if anyone might assist with possible archive-references and/or information on tools for search and ordering of material that might be available online? Any practical guides to how one can obtain information from BaMa Koblenz (both online and by visit) is also of interest of course.

As I'm currently working with the preparation of MAA 504 Torpedobatterie Hjelte (Herdla Torpedobattery), scheduled to open as a museum in may, we are especially interested in any information of this battery (or even the MAA 504 Torpedobatterie Raune which was built at the same time in the same region, and is very similar).

I'm also looking for info on Sperrbatterie Bergen/Torpedobatterie Kvarven (initially established as a norwegian battery around 1900) for the same reason, although start for restauration of this battery is not yet scheduled.

Any tip and information (documents, drawings/sketches, photos or archive-references to such) would be highly appreciated!

Information could also be sent to Museum Vest/ Herdla Museum ( herdla@museumvest.no ) which will be responsible for the operation of the battery for museum purposes.

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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by jopaerya » 05 Feb 2015 14:31

Here the two way of guided torpedo's ( Spinne )

Regards Jos
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Natter
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by Natter » 05 Feb 2015 15:06

I know this: It's from an attachment to a minute from a B.d.U. presentation/meeting in november 1942, concerning the need for developing new torpedoes (found in NARA RG242/T-1022/R-2061).

It's not specifically concerning the TX-torpedo I think - more like a description of the concept, which in the end lead to developing three types of torpedoes a couple of years later: The G7s "Lerche" (acoustic and wireguided uboat-torpedo), the G7f NY (radio-controlled surfacetorpedo) and the G7f(TX) NYK "Spinne" (wire-guided shoredefence torpedo). The sketch differes substantially from the resulting projects.

I might be mistaken as my german is virtually useless... Anyway: Only the TX torpedo was ever fielded, as the other two concepts were never finished. I don't remember if "Lerche" was scrapped in favour of the "Geier" project (due to limited resources towards the end of the war), or vice versa, but I think probably the latter ("Geier" was a joint Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe project, which Luftwaffe jumped off in favour of the "Pfau" acoustic lufttorpedo).

It's interesting to look at post-war german torpedoes, as you can recognice the "Lerche" concept and details in several designs - even the most modern types...

underground_Ed
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by underground_Ed » 08 Jun 2015 19:16

Hi,
I have made some pictures of the maquette of the Torpedobatterie formerly located in Vlissingen. It is made by Cees van der Burght.
Greetings,
Edwin
http://www.flessinghe.nl
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JKernwerk
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by JKernwerk » 08 Jun 2015 21:12

Looks beautifull, Cees van der Burght also made really nice drawings of bunkers.
JK

wimve
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by wimve » 09 Jun 2015 07:30

JKernwerk wrote:Looks beautifull, Cees van der Burght also made really nice drawings of bunkers.
JK
Yep, does somebody know what he made all together ?
Thanks,

Wim
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3D : http://www.petromax.nl/Hanstholm.html
http://www.petromax.nl/DeBeer.html

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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by underground_Ed » 09 Jun 2015 11:41

wimve wrote:
JKernwerk wrote:Looks beautifull, Cees van der Burght also made really nice drawings of bunkers.
JK
Yep, does somebody know what he made all together ?
Take a look at : http://www.archieven.nl/nl/zoeken?mista ... r%20burght

You can see a part of his work. In a few weeks all his work will be online.

His drawings can be found at my blog : http://www.flessinghe.nl/de-oorlog-die-geen-einde-nam/

Greetings from Vlissingen
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underground_Ed
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Re: Torpedo Bunkers in Norway

Post by underground_Ed » 09 Jun 2015 20:50

1. April 1944, a note about " Einsetz von Torpedo-Battr. zu Landensabwehr". The use of the torpedobatterie in Vlissingen.

2. I'm very interested in the fact that I believe that at first it was the plan that this torpedobatterie was planned to be an 'normal' torpedo launch installation. At the end, when the Spinne was developed they adjust the installation to become an spinnebatterie. Does someone know ?

3. And in october 1944, a few days before the assault on Vlissingen by NO4 commando ( 1 november 1944) the Spinnetorpedo's arrived at Vlissingen. The see commandant mentioned this in his kriegstagesbuch. Where are the torpedo's coming from ? Directly from Germany or Rotterdam or Oostende ?

4. Can someone identify what kind of torpedo they working on (picture).

Questions, Questions Questions.

Thanks in advance,
Edwin
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