*Photos of Soviet tractors, used by artillery: identify, pls

BIGpanzer · Post by **BIGpanzer** » 07 Aug 2005 21:41

Friends!
Can anybody help me with the model identification of that Soviet tractor, which was used by artillery unit? Period of time - August 1941. Probably, that was so called "Stalinets" tractor (S-65?), but I am not sure.

AFAIK Soviets used many thousands of agricultural tractors for towing the divisional and corps cannons and howitzers during WWII. That was happen because of shortage of special artillery prime movers (see my post http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=74221 ). In 1941 many heavy artillery units had only 20% of necessary artillery prime movers and used agricultural tractors and civil cars instead of them. The towing speed of civil tractors should be near 5 km/h and that was one of the reason of heavy losses of Soviet medium and heavy artillery in June 1941 and later...........

Thanks in advance, BIGpanzer

Source: http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/

Orzel Bialy · Post by **Orzel Bialy** » 08 Aug 2005 00:19

It appears to be a variant of the R-42 Stalinetz tractor. Not sure what the variant model number would be but that engine compartment (three grills on the side and headlamp placement) along with the track set up really smack of the R-42.

BIGpanzer · Post by **BIGpanzer** » 08 Aug 2005 01:24

Thanks for the reply!
I am making a small search in Internet now and what I've found. Soviets produced (Chelyabinsk tractor plant) several models of "Stalinets"-type agricultural caterpillar tractor, and the main variants were "Stalinets-60" (S-60) and "Stalinets-65" (S-65). S-60 was the modified variant of USA "Caterpillar-60" tractor, later the Soviet engineers equipped it with the native diesel and S-65 appeared.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any info about the R-42 model, probably, such model never existed. But I found that some model kits of Soviet "Stalinetz" tractors of WWII period had the catalogue designation R-42, so this is just the firm catalogue designation for the scale model, I believe.

S-60 (10,5 t tractor with 60-72 hp gasoline engine) was produced in 1932-1937 (69100 copies).
S-65 (11,2 t tractor with 65-75 hp diesel engine M-17) was produced in 1937-1941 (37626 copies) - the first Soviet serial diesel tractor.
Both tractors had speed near 7-8 km/h, range 80-90 km and could tow 4 t (S-65) or 5.5 t (S-60) trailers. They were quite reliable, especially during winters, and had good cross-country ability. Also they were used as bulldozers. S-2 (high-speed transport modification) and SG-65 (with gas generator engine, using firewood as the fuel) modifications existed.

In January 1941 Soviet Army had 5646 caterpillar tractors of S-60, S-65 and STZ-3 type (instead of 10434 required for infantry, artillery, tank and engineering units), also many thousands of these agricultural tractors were mobilized during WWII. Many of them were lost or captured by the German and also Finnish Armies, which used Soviet tractors also very widely for towing the medium/heavy guns and damaged tanks.

But I couldn't find any photos of those tractors, so I still don't know the exact model in the photo.
Any ideas?

P.S. If somebody has also the photos of captured Soviet tractors in German service - please, show them!
Did the Soviet Army use original USA tractors "Caterpillar-60" during WWII? Which tractor models did USSR receive as Lend-Lease help?

BIGpanzer · Post by **BIGpanzer** » 08 Aug 2005 11:18

Fortunately, I found the photos of Soviet caterpillar tractors (Stalinets-60 and Stalinets-65) in one old technical journal.
Take a look! But they had open cabs both, but, probably, models with closed cabs also were produced. The same I found with Google: http://www.agronet.ru/gif/istor/traktorostroi/009.jpg

I suppose that this is a diesel tractor S-65 on the photo (taking into account the typical radiator), I've posted above.

Photo of the Soviet universal tractor S-60 (1932-1937, 69100 copies)
is from http://www.avtomash.ru/pred/chtz/stalin1.jpe
Photo of the Soviet universal tractor S-65 (1937-1941, 37626 copies)
is from http://www.agronet.ru/gif/istor/traktorostroi

BIGpanzer · Post by **BIGpanzer** » 08 Aug 2005 14:55

That's really heavy caterpillar diesel tractor "Stalinets-65"!!
I've found several photos of it in Internet:
http://mk-armour.narod.ru/2002/03/Photo_39.jpg (tractor S-65, towing 122mm howitzer M-10; 1941)
http://mk-armour.narod.ru/2002/03/Photo_38.jpg (tractors S-60 and S-65, towing 152mm howitzers ML-20; Kursk, 1943)
http://mk-armour.narod.ru/2002/03/Photo_40.jpg (tractor S-65, towing pontoon-bridge, interesting photo!)
http://nar0d.narod.ru/70/stalinec.jpg (preserved S-65)

To see these four photos you need to click on link again when special window appeared.

http://www.battlefield.ru/tanks/t34_76/t34_63.jpg (two S-65 tractors pulled stuck T-34 tank)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/t/s-65_ ... ydeww2.jpg (S-65 diesel tractor)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/stz65_2Baydeww2.jpg (S-65, captured by Germans)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/s65i ... ydeww2.jpg (S-65, towing 152mm howitzer)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/opSu ... ydeww2.jpg (abandoned Soviet S-65s and heavy howitzers)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/t/41s-6 ... ydeww2.jpg (again abandoned S-65s, 1941)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/s-65 ... ydeww2.jpg (S-65, captured by Germans)

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/stal ... ydeww2.jpg (SG-65 modification with 65 hp gas producer engine on wood fuel, also abandoned).
Note: Soviets produced 264 copies of S-60 with gas producer engine and 7365 SG-65 - they could use wood, peat, coal and straw as fuel. Such tractors were less powered, but they didn't need in expensive diesel oil or ligroin.

Also photos of heavy caterpillar tractor "Stalinets-60", used by Soviet Army as prime mover in artillery, tank and engineering units:
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/s-60_b8_Baydeww2.jpg (tractor S-60, captured by Germans)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/s-60 ... ydeww2.jpg (column of destroyed S-60s, 1941)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/s60s ... ydeww2.jpg (S-60, towing 152mm divisional howitzer M1909/30)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/stzli_1Baydeww2.jpg (tractor S-60)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/k/stali ... ydeww2.jpg (S-60, use by Germans as prime mover during mud Russian autumn)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/s-60 ... ydeww2.jpg (S-60, used by Germans as prime mover for 88mm Flak)

Agricultural S-60 and S-65 tractors were used by Soviet army mainly for towing divisional and corps guns in artillery units, also for towing damaged light tanks in tank and mechanized units and for towing engineering equipment. But they were used also for towing Soviet super-heavy 203mm caterpillar howitzers B-4 in 1941. Because of their low speed (~ 5 km/h) some of the Soviet heavy artillery regiments lost all their equipment in June 1941 under the fast German attacks. Many sources report that besides the large shortage of special artillery prime movers in Soviet heavy artillery units in 1941 there was also the shortage of even civil tractors S-60 and S-65; many of them were depreciated after intensive exploitation.

Soviet Army received 28960 tractors S-60, S-65 and STZ-3 (64.5% of all civil tractors and special artillery prime movers in the army).

Regards, BIGpanzer

BIGpanzer · Post by **BIGpanzer** » 08 Aug 2005 15:48

Did the Soviet Army use original USA tractors "Caterpillar-60" during WWII? Which tractor models did USSR receive as Lend-Lease help?

I found also one photo of abandoned (1941) Soviet caterpillar tractor, towing howitzer - this is not "Stalinets" for sure (see the suspension type), probably, STZ-3? Does anybody know?

Source: http://www.autogallery.org.ru/

BIGpanzer · Post by **BIGpanzer** » 09 Aug 2005 07:46

Please, help with any info about Lend-Lease tractors (amount, models), which were delivered to USSR during WWII!
AFAIK the Soviet tractor production decreased dramatically in 1941 after capturing Kharkov tractor factory (Ukraine) by the Germans and switching tractor production over to tank production by Stalingrad, Chelyabinsk, Kirov and other Soviet tractor factories. Only in 1944 the tractor production in sizeable amounts resumed again.

As for the photo above - me seems this is caterpillar tractor STZ-3 (STZ-NATI).......Any opinions?

Bill Murray · Post by **Bill Murray** » 09 Aug 2005 13:25

BIGpanzer:
If you have not already found this site, go to it and perhaps contact Oliver directly. He has done tons of research on Lend Lease vehicles and may be able to help you. http://www.o5m6.de/main.html

I may also have some information on tractors supplied on Lend Lease but will have to find the reference materiel.
Cheers
Bill

BIGpanzer · Post by **BIGpanzer** » 09 Aug 2005 19:13

Hello, Bill!
Thanks for the link!
Unfortunately, I didn't know this excellent site before! Really a very well done site with huge amount of excellent info!

But it contains mainly the info about armour and trucks, much less about tractors.
Anyway I found the info that USSR received 7570 Lend-Lease caterpillar tractors. About the models I still can't find detailed info, searching.....

As for the photo I've posted above. Now I believe that this is STZ-3 (other names SKhTZ-3, STZ-NATI) tractor, produced by Stalingrad, Kharkov and Altai tractor factories (210744 were produced in 1937-1952, including ~16000 KhTZ-T2G modification (1938-1941) with gas producer 45 hp engine, used wood or straw as the fuel). Fortunately, I could find several photos of STZ-NATI.
Agricultural STZ-3 was less powerful caterpillar tractor in comparison with S-60/S-65, but many thousands of such tractors (the most widespread Soviet caterpillar tractor of WWII period) were used by Soviet artillery units for towing regimental/divisional guns, also anti-tank and anti-aircraft guns. Many of such tractors were abandoned or captured by the Germans.

Also the special high-speed (20 km/h) transport modification STZ-5 (with front cabin and goods truck behind it) existed, which served mainly in army, not in civil service. See my post http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=74221

STZ-3 had 52 hp kerosene engine, weight 4800-5100 kg, speed 8 km/h with 2,6 t trailer, range 60 km.

http://mk-armour.narod.ru/2002/03/Photo_34.jpg (STZ-3, towing 152mm howitzers M1909/30; military parade, 1940)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/nash ... ydeww2.jpg (abandoned STZ-3 with 152mm howitzer)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/420I ... ydeww2.jpg (STZ-3, captured by Germans)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/nash ... ydeww2.jpg (STZ-3 and 85mm AA gun)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/stz_ ... ydeww2.jpg (STZ-3, towing 152mm divisional howitzer M1909/30, captured)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/4142 ... ydeww2.jpg (German STZ-3, sank in the mud)
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/sa/nefr ... ydeww2.jpg (four damaged STZ-3)

Photo of the Soviet universal tractor STZ-NATI (210744 copies, 1937-1952)
is from http://www.avtomash.ru/pred/muzei_t/cxtznati.gif

Bill Murray · Post by **Bill Murray** » 09 Aug 2005 22:38

Hallo BIGpanzer:
Sorry, I should have been more clear. Oliver is just now starting on the items other than trucks that were supplied via Lend Lease to Russia. I would strongly recommend you email him with your questions, he has a lot of information that is not yet published on his site.
I have traded information and photos with him over a time and he is very enthusiastic and very helpful.

May I take the opportunity here to congratulate you and thank you for your many contributions on the subject of Russian equipments that most of us do not take the time to research. I particularly am enjoying the thread on Russian Shipping you started and zre running almost entirely by yourself.
As my field of research is primarily centered on beute soft skinned vehicles, particularly American brand vehicles, I can appreciate how difficult it is to get much information on a little researched area of military history. Please keep up the good work.

Regarding any assistance I can offer, it has been many years since I saw the information I mentioned earlier and a lot of my research materiel is packed away and I will have to try to find it again. I do remember, as you also mentioned, that some thousands of Cat tractors were supplied to Russia and not a small number of railroad engines, both steam and diesel, under the Lend Lease program. I will try to help where I can.
Cheers
Bill

BIGpanzer · Post by **BIGpanzer** » 10 Aug 2005 14:29

Hello, Bill!
Thanks a lot for the kind letter! I will try to communicate to Oliver if I don't find enough info by myself, thanks again for the advice.
As for the Russian equipment. Yes, I am a little bit interested in it now and would like to find and to post some info here. I don't think that this is a very rear info because Russian equipment of WWII is quite well known and researched, but such subjects as locomotives, transport ships or tractors, for example, are less known usually (especially for me

).

I hope, I will find some more info and post it here for everybody pleasure

Later I am going to research the equipments of other countries. For example, I've tried to find some info about Bulgarian equipment here: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=66767

Respectfully yours, BIGpanzer

BIGpanzer · Post by **BIGpanzer** » 10 Aug 2005 15:18

I found the info that in summer 1941 Soviet Army had 44900 tractors and prime movers, but there were only near 10000 (20.5%) special army prime movers ("Komsomolets", "Komintern", "Voroshilovets", and artillery used only 26% of them, the rest were used by tank, mechanized and engineering units) and 15% consisted of special transport tractors (STZ-5, Stalinets-2, "Kommunar"). The rest 64.5% consisted of civil agricultural tractors (S-60, S-65, STZ-3).

Usually infanty division in 1941 had 99 tractors (21 half-armoured "Komsomolets" for 45mm AT guns, 5 transport tractors STZ-5 for 76mm AA guns, 48 agricultural STZ-3 for 122mm howitzers and 25 agricultural S-60/S-65 for 152mm howitzers). Interesting, that Soviet Army had more tractors than German Army (which used mainly horses at infantry divisional level) in 1941. Also Soviets used very widely civil trucks and horses for towing the cannons and howitzers.

Among all tractors and prime movers in Soviet Army (1941) only 82% were serviceable, the rest were under repair.

As for the STZ-NATI (STZ-3) I've mentioned above. It played a significant role as artillery prime mover during WWII, but also it was used as the base for the self-made tanks in 1941. Soviet army lost a huge amounts of tanks in summer 1941 and because of their great shortage Kharkov tractor factory developed and produced in 1941 several models of "tractor-tanks". Usual agricultural STZ-3 tractors were armored with light armor (10-25 mm) or even with boiler steel and were armed with 45mm tank guns from damaged light T-26 tanks + 1 MG. The suspension was strengthened also. 45mm gun was placed in the armored cabin and, of course, had very limited turning angle. Such model had official designation KhTZ-16. It was planned to produce 750 such "tractor-tanks" in August-September 1941, but only 50-60 were produced before the capturing of the plant by German Army in October 1941. Germans captured 809 tractor chassis also.
I couldn't find any detailed info about the use of KhTZ-16 in combats, only that they were used during the defence of Kharkov and almost all were lost.
Several tens of such "tractor-tanks" were produced also by Stalingrad tractor factory, they were used in combats till spring 1942.
Also 55-69 armored STZ-3/STZ-5 tractors (some with the turrets from T-26 light tanks) with light gun + 2 MGs were produced at settled Odessa during the autumn 1941. They were jesting named as "NI" ("Na Ispug" - "to cause consternation"

) They were used even quite successfully against Romanian infantry in 1941.

Photos of STZ-3 armored tractors:
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/tractor/chark1.jpg (caterpiller damaged and abandoned)
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/tractor/odess.jpg (Odessa, 1941 - note the "Maxim" turret MG)
http://www.kubinka-tank-inform.ru/tanks01/ni01b.jpg (preserved at Kubinka tank museum)
http://www.achtungpanzer.bos.ru/gallery ... nka109.jpg (the same preserved "NI")
http://travel.kyiv.org/kyiv/mvov/mvov14.jpg (preserved at Kiev WWII museum)

BIGpanzer · Post by **BIGpanzer** » 10 Aug 2005 15:31

And one photo of Soviet transport tractor "Kommunar", which was used mainly by civil timber enterprises in 1920s-1930s. Army used such tractors also very widely for the towing of cannons/howitzers. Many "Kommunars" were lost and captured by the German Army (see the photo).

This photo is present on many German WWII historical sites also.

Source: http://www.autogallery.org.ru/

BIGpanzer · Post by **BIGpanzer** » 10 Aug 2005 22:18

Some info about universal tractor "Kommunar"............

In January 1941 Soviet Army had 3343 "Stalinets-2" + STZ-5 + "Kommunar" transport tractors (but the requirement was 6523).
Specifications: weight 8.25 - 9 t; speed 7 - 15 km/h; range 100-150 km; trailer 4.6 - 6.0 t; engine - 50 hp kerosene or 75 hp gasoline or 90 hp gasoline (three modifications existed G-50, G-75 and Z-90).
The tractor "Kommunar" was produced by Kharkov locomotive/tractor factory in 1924-1931 (~3900 copies) and was based on German tractor "WD-50 Hanomag" WWI-period design, significantly modified by Soviet engineers.

Those tractors were used by heavy artillery units in 1924-1945, but had quite low speed, large weight, had no place for ammunition and gun's team and had mediocre cross country ability because of fixed caterpillar suspension. Nevertheless, because of shortage of good special artillery transport prime movers (STZ-5, "Stalinets-2", "Komintern", "Voroshilovets") Soviet Army used "Kommunars" instead of them quite often for towing medium and heavy guns.
The base of "Kommunar" tractor was used also for designing the first Soviet experimental self-propelled guns in early 1930s.

As for its photos - will post them tomorrow.

Regards, BIGpanzer

BIGpanzer · Post by **BIGpanzer** » 11 Aug 2005 14:09

Photos of Soviet universal tractor "Kommunar", which I could find:

http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/p115-1l.gif (blueprints)
http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/p115-3l.jpg (note the large fuel tank behind the driver's cab)
http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/p115-4l.jpg (agricultural "Kommunar")
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/t/trakt ... ydeww2.jpg (damaged and abandoned "Kommunar", 1941; behind it - tractor STZ-NATI)

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any photos of "Kommunar", towing gun - can anybody help?

Photo of the Soviet universal tractor "Kommunar" (~3900 copies, 1924-1931)
is from http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/p115-2.jpg