*Did USSR develop ballistic/cruise/AA missiles during WWII?

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*Did USSR develop ballistic/cruise/AA missiles during WWII?

Post by BIGpanzer » 13 Aug 2005 19:44

It is interesting, did Soviets develope any native experimental designs of ballistic, cruise and anti-aircraft missiles during WWII as Germans did? Something like V2, V1 or "Wasserfall"........
Or Soviet engineers began such kind of work only after the end of WWII, based on German ideas.....


Thanks in advance, BIGpanzer
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Post by BIGpanzer » 14 Aug 2005 15:52

Still no information............. :(

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Post by Michael Emrys » 14 Aug 2005 18:37

The Soviets used vast quantities of battlefield unguided rocket artillery of course. While they might have had something longer-ranged and sophisticated on a drawing board somewhere, I have never heard of anything that they put into production. Their science was certainly good enough that they could have done so in time, but I believe that they were wisely concentrating on projects that could be produced and put into service quickly for immediate use. Later on, their missile technology derived a great deal, as did that of the West, from captured German scientists and technology.

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Post by Huck » 15 Aug 2005 00:04

No, there wasn't anything close to V-2 engine anywhere in the world at that time.
In 1945 a team of Soviet rocket scientists, most of which will become famous later, went to Germany to gather materials about the German rocket programs. While examining V-2, Boris Chertok recalls himself saying "One and half tons was the limit of our dreams", " Yet here we quickly calculated, based on the nozzle dimensions, that the engine thrust was at least twenty tons".

He was quite right about the V-2 engine thrust (V-2 was more powerful in reality), and this explains the enormous interest that all major armies of the world took in V-2. The engine was so good that to this day its burning chamber is still used for Soyuz rocket carrier, the longest living human certified rocket laucher (and probably the safest too).

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Post by BIGpanzer » 15 Aug 2005 01:12

Thanks, guys!
Yes, probably Soviets started to develop their ballistic missiles only after WWII, based on German and native development. In addition I only found recently in "Space encyclopedia" that Soviet engineers developed and even successfully tested native cruise and AA experimental missiles in late 1930s. Some of their missiles looked very similar to late German V1 (Fi 103). But I still couldn't find more detailed info about that............

As for V2 (A-4) missile - its full weight was 12910 kg and V2's engine maximal tractive force was 245-307 kN (1N = 0.102 kgs as I remember from university physics :) ), so its tractive force was 24.990 t - 31.314 t. Soviet engineer calculated approximately correctly :)
AFAIK Soviet/Russian "Sojuz" space missile has 4 engines at the first stage with the minimal tractive force 1000 kN each, very likely it is the modification of the engines of the first space missiles, which were the modifications of the engines of the first Soviet ballistic missiles, which were in part the modified V2's engines 8) :wink:


Regards, BIGpanzer

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Post by Michael Emrys » 15 Aug 2005 03:37

Huck wrote:No, there wasn't anything close to V-2 engine anywhere in the world at that time.


That's true in the sense that in 1945 the V-2 was the biggest such rocket around. But 13 years earlier, Robert Goddard had led a team that had several successful launches of experimental rockets that anticipated many of the features of the V-2.

Goddard's work largely anticipated in technical detail the later German V-2 missiles, including gyroscopic control, steering by means of vanes in the jet stream of the rocket motor, gimbalsteering, power-driven fuel pumps and other devices.


http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blgoddard.htm

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Soviet first missiles with liquid-propellant engine

Post by BIGpanzer » 15 Aug 2005 13:29

Yes, Robert Goddard's rocket design office constructed and tested many experimental rockets in 1930s. Of course, they were not powerful, but R. Goddard used very progressive and pioneering ideas.

As for the Soviets. I found some short info from the "Space encyclopedia" that Soviet engineers founded the research design office of jet propulsion (so called GIRD, head S. Korolev - the future famous designer of space missiles and spaceships) in 1931 (Moscow). Soviets developed near ten liquid-propellant missile engines, experimental rockets and rocket gliders in early 1930s. In 1933 the first Soviet missile with liquid-propellant engine (fuel - special gasoline + liquid oxygen) was tested (GIRD-09 missile, designer - famous engineer Tikhonravov) and serially produced with more powerful engine as experimental ground missile (6 copies of GIRD-13 missile, 20 kg weight, 1.8 m length, engine with tractive force 637 N, speed 275 m/s, 1.5-5 km ceiling, had parachute). Also Soviets tested missile GIRD-X with liquid-propellant engine in 1933 (fuel - spirit; 29.5 kg weight; 2.2 m length; engine OR-2 with tractive force 687 N; speed 675 m/s; 5.5 km theoretical ceiling, but practical was less). Those experimental missiles looked like the future "Katyusha" missiles - they had tail unit. Also Gas Dynamics Laboratory (GDL) in Leningrad (established in 1921-1924 with the army encouragement and worked at first on light powder missiles for the mortars) developed several light missiles and engines (fuel - kerosene and nitric acid). In 1933 the Missile Research Institute was established (RNII), united GIRD and GDL together. The chied engineer of RNII was military engineer G. Langemak (was repressed and killed in 1937 as many other missile engineers) with the main research subject "Development of missile artillery for ground, air and navy forces".

Photo of GIRD-09 missile (1933): http://www.informatics.org/museum/russi ... /gird9.jpg
Take-off of the GIRD-09 missile (1933): http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/8-5.jpg
GIRD-X missile (1933): http://www.russianspaceweb.com/gird_rocket10_2.jpg (museum copy)

Soviet Army was interested in such constructions and the chief of the army equipment marshal Tukhachevsky (which understood the important role of missiles for the army and helped to establish Missile Research Institute) ordered to develop an experimental missile, which should take off upright as ballistic missile and then glided as cruise missile. In parallel S. Korolev worked on the experimental artillery shell with simple ramjet inside (project 08, fuel - white phosphorus). The first Soviet cruise missile RNII-07 was successfully tested in 1935 (flying wing scheme; weight 35 kg; length 2 m; speed 686 m/s; engine 02 with tractive force 834 N; ceiling 4.6 km; range 3.4 km); next year and later Soviets tested many different small experimental cruise and ballistic missiles with liquid-propellant engines, ramjets and mixed engines. Several accidents with missile engines during the flights happened, but the whole tests were quite successful.

The engineers from RNII developed the famous "Katyusha" unguided missiles RS-82 and RS-132 in 1936-1937, those missiles were also tested as the weapon for the fighters.
Soviet missile engineering in 1940-1941 was at the same stage than German missile engineering in 1940-1941, but after the beginning of the German-Soviet war Soviets switched their attention to unguided missiles "Katyusha" (the best unguided missiles that time) and their modifications for fighters/ground attack airplanes, also to experimental rocket and jet fighters.

That's all I found....................

Photos of the Soviet experimental missile GIRD-X (1933)
and Soviet experimental cruise missile RNII-07 (1935)
are from http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru and http://www.rtc.ru/encyk/bibl/golovanov/doroga/350.jpg
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Post by BIGpanzer » 15 Aug 2005 16:30

Three photos from the same "googled" Russian site:

R.Goddard and the first liquid-propellant missile in the world (1926): http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/getlend/a3.jpg
Soviet liquid-propellant missile GIRD-X and Soviet engineers (1933): http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/getlend/a13.jpg
German liquid-propellant missile A-3 (1937): http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/getlend/a15.jpg

It should be noted that US and Soviet missile engineers achieved the same results as German missile engineers by 1940 and the financing of Germans was much more better.

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Post by Michael Emrys » 15 Aug 2005 16:57

Very interesting! I suspected that the Soviets were active in rocket design pre-war, but had very little information on it. Just some very oblique references.

Thanks again, BP, for bringing this useful historical information to our attention.

:)

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Post by BIGpanzer » 15 Aug 2005 19:12

Thanks, Grease_Spot!

Probably, Soviets tested unguided missiles of "Katyusha" RS-82 design as the weapon for fighters as early as in 1932/1933 (I-5 biplane fighter was used).
As for the liquid-propellant engines: Soviet engine series from ORM-4 to ORM-22 were tested 53 times on different missiles in 1932-1933. Soviet ORM-52 was the most powerful liquid-propellant engine in the world in 1933 (300-320 kgs), it was successfully tested with several small missiles. Soviet engineers developed in 1933 (!) three very powerful missiles (RLA-100, weight 400 kg, engine 3000 kgs!), but unsuccessfully and those missiles were not built.

As for the Soviet 82mm and 132mm unguided missiles of RS-type (famous “Katyushas”, appeared as experimental in December 1938, 10788 missiles and near 6 serial truck launchers were produced by May 1941) – no sense to discuss this topic, of course.
I would like only to note that many serial modifications existed during WWII: different mobile launchers (12-48 guides) on native and Lend-Lease trucks, also on transport tractors and light tanks and on motorcycles (experimental), near 100 serial (1945) models of mobile truck launchers with the spiral guides, different stationary launchers (including light mountain), serial railway armored launchers, serial launchers on patrol and torpedo boats (used by navy in 1942-1945). On 1 January 1944 Soviet Army had 2700 mobile launchers and 5700 stationary launchers. Also heavy (up to 95 kg) 280mm and 300mm high-explosive unguided missiles were used in 1942-1945 (mainly from the stationary launchers). During WWII 78 different types of launchers for unguided 82mm-300mm missiles (weight 13-92 kg; range 3-12 km) were developed and 36 types were serially produced. First serial RS-82 and RS-132 missiles of late 1930s were fiery or gas, later high-explosive missiles were developed. http://petrysha.narod.ru/reaksn.gif (different Soviet unguidrd missiles)

Aviation used unguided 82-mm and 132-mm missiles (range 7.1 km) also very widely (fighters I-153, I-16, ground attack aircrafts Il-2 were equipped with 8 missiles, bombers SB were equipped sometimes with 10 missiles). During Soviet-Japanese conflicts in 1939 fighters I-16, armed with RS-82, successfully destroyed 17 Japanese airplanes. During Winter War six bombers SB used RS-132 against Finnish fortifications. During the whole WWII Il-2 successfully used 82-mm and 132-mm missiles against German infantry and trucks, as for the anti-tank missiles from Il-2 – only direct hit could destroy German tank ( http://www.airwar.ru/image/i/weapon/rs82-2.jpg ) , but that could happen very rear because of quite big deviation of unguided missiles of that time.

I found just now that Soviet engineer L. Dushkin (future famous designer of jet engines) developed since 1939 the unguided anti-aircraft missile (project 135), based on "Katyusha" RS-132 missile design and multi-charge launcher. That missile should have mixed engine - main liquid-propellant (fuel - kerosene and nitric acid) + several take-off powder accelerators. In 1940 the work was stopped, but continued during WWII. Anti-aircraft “Katyusha” had 6x2 guides for M-132 missiles or 24 guides for M-82 missiles and based on single-axis trailer (experimental) or truck ZiS-5. Six of such AA launchers (missiles had time-fuses) were used near Leningrad (Ladoga lake), also quite many launchers with 2-12 (even 40 as experimental) guides were made at front workshops (Leningrad front). The first (and single? - anybody knows?) victory of serial AA “Katyushas”– one Ju88 was brought down on 14 November 1941. Black Sea Navy used patrol boats with missile launchers for AA defense also.


Regards, BIGpanzer.
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First Soviet high-altitude missiles

Post by BIGpanzer » 16 Aug 2005 10:09

Soviets also developed high-altitide missiles in 1930s (several models were built by design office of jet propulsion - GIRD and avaition department of scientific and techical association - AviaVNITO). AviaVNITO missile was based on quite large missile GIRD-05 with the most powerful liquid-propellant engine 12k (2940 N, 4 tanks with spirit and liquid oxygen, working time 21 s) and was equipped with parachute and altimeter. That high-altitude missile (97 kg, 3.23 m, 950 m/s) was tested in 1936-1937, using 48 m high stationary launcher, and reached 10.4 km altitude.
Photo of AviaVNITO missile: http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/8-6.jpg (1936)
and http://www.russianspaceweb.com/gird_rockets_2.jpg (museum copy)

Also Soviet stratosphere committee developed and tested the first in the world two-stage rocket R-3 (first stage was equipped with powder accelerator engine 1160 N, the second - with direct-flow jet engine with aluminium/magnesium as the fuel, 235 N. Engineer - I. Merkulov: the future famous designer of jet engines). R-3 two-stage missiles (13 kg, 1.6 m, 1200 m/s) were serially produced (16 copies) in 1939 and reached 9 km altitude.
Photo of R-3 take-off (1939): http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/6-19.jpg
Blueprints of R-3 two-stage missile: http://bob-pot.narod.ru/dobr/nw2.jpg

The projects of small stratosphere missiles (ceiling 50-100 km), equipped with gyroscopes, automatic filming equipment and radio transmitters, were abandoned after the beginning of the war.
Blueprints of R-05 missile (project, 55 kg, 2.25 m, 50 km):
http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/6-25.jpg
Blueprints of two-stage R-10 missile (project, 100 kg, 1113 m/s, 100 km, infra-red rays guiding):
http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/6-28.jpg

Missile RLA-100 should have weight 400 kg, ceiling up to 100 km and powerful (3000 N) engine and it was built in part, but the work also was stopped.

Also I found a quite interesting site about Soviet missiles, including of preWWII-WWII period http://www.russianspaceweb.com/rockets.html The site contains quite interesting info about German rocketry of WWII-period also.

Photo of the Soviet experimental two-stage missile R-3 (16 copies, 1939)
is from http://www.rtc.ru/encyk/bibl/golovanov/doroga/353.jpg


Regards, BIGpanzer
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Soviet guided missiles of 1930s

Post by BIGpanzer » 24 Aug 2005 14:14

I found recently a very interesting info about first Soviet guided missiles, designed as surface-to-surface or surface-to-air missiles.
Soviet Missile Research Institute (RNII) developed in 1936-1937 small missiles "06/II" and ANIR-5 with automatic gyroscope (successfully tested during several flights) and cruise missile "216" with spirit-oxygen engine and automatic gyroscope (also successfully tested, 4 flights were made). The parachute was opened on reaching the maximal altitude (gyroscope control). Also many small testing unguided cruise missiles "48" with powder engines were built.
Drawing of guided missile ANIR-5 (6 were build and tested): http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/6-21.jpg

Then the powerful long-range cruise missile 212 with nitrate-kerosene engine and improved automatic gyroscope apparatus (two gyroscopes, aneroid, altimeter, control system; three stabilization planes) was built and tested in 1937-1939 (engineer -S. Korolev). The fuel tanks of the missile located inside the wings, but the tanks with oxygen - in the hull. The launcher represented the sloping railway with powder accelerator.
Specifications: weight 210 kg (including 30 kg of explosive); 3,16 m (length) x 3,06 (wings) m; engine with power 1470 N (working time 80 seconds); speed 380 m/s; range 50-80 km. This is a quite successful Soviet analogue of the German V-1 flying bomb, which appeared much earlier than V-1, but remained experimental.

S.Korolev together with M. Dryazgov (RNII designer office) also developed and built in 1938 the first anti-aircraft guided missiles: 217/I (aircraft-type scheme, designer S. Korolev) and 217/II (missile scheme with 4 small wings, designer M. Dryazgov). They were guided by special searchlight beam or infra-red rays, and had telecontrol apparatus together with special rudders on the end of the wings. Those missiles were successfully tested in 1939 during several flights. Also engineers from RNII developed guided ballistic missile 609/II, guided AA air-to-air missile 301 (it was guided by radio from TB-3 bomber, successfully tested in 1938, 3.2m, 200 kg, 10 km range), also cruise missiles air-to-surface for heavy bombers - but WWII stopped the work and all missile engineers started to develop and improve famous "Katyushas". In 1939 the Missile Research Institute was renamed to Research Institute No. 3 of the Ministry of Ammunition.
Specifications (for 217/I): weight 102,5 kg; 2.27m x 2.195m; speed 280 m/s; vertical range - 3 km and horizontal range 6.8 km.
Specifications (for 217/II): weight 120 kg, 1,865m x 0,785m; engine with power 1813 N (working time 3,5 seconds); speed 320 m/s; vertical range - 3.27 km and horizontal range 19 km (theoretically, practical was less).

Also cruise missiles 216 were tested in 1935-1936.

Photo of guided cruise missile 212 (1934-1939): http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/10-11.jpg
Launcher for guided cruise missile 212: http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/10-9.jpg
Another construction of launcher for 212: http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/vetrov/20a.jpg
Modern museum photo of guided cruise missile 212 - http://www.russianspaceweb.com/212_cruise_2.jpg

Photo of guided AA missile 217/I (1939) - http://www.aviarus-21.com/images/pvo/ch ... 1-full.jpg (!!!)

Photo of guided AA missile 217/II (1939) - http://www.aviarus-21.com/images/pvo/ch ... 2-full.jpg
Start of AA guided missile 217/II - http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/e ... tn_003.jpg
Picture of guided AA missile 217/II - http://www.aviarus-21.com/images/pvo/ch ... 1-full.jpg

Photos of AA missiles 48 and 217 - http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/10-13.jpg

Photos of the Soviet experimental guided cruise missile RNII-212 (1937-1939)
and the Soviet experimental guided AA missile RNII-217/II (1939)
are from http://www.rtc.ru/encyk/bibl/golovanov/doroga/350.jpg
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Post by BIGpanzer » 26 Aug 2005 13:32

Interesting, that one of the first Soviet unguided missiles RLA-1 and RLA-2 (1933, 1.88m length, 2-4 km altitude) had the 8inch artillery shell parts as the fuselage and 6inch artillery shell parts as the combustion chamber. One of the first guided missile RLA-3 had the gyroscope apparatus from the torpedoes. Later, the material supply of Gas-dynamics laboratory became better and Soviet engineers developed and produced quite reliable missile engines, gyroscopes and different devices for missiles.

Gas-dynamics laboratory (GDL, Leningrad) was under the direction of the Technical Staff of Red Army in 1930s. The Research Group of Jet Propulsion (GIRD, Moscow-Leningrad) supported by the Department of Military Inventions of Red Army. GIRD consisted of for sections: liquid-propellant engines (chief - F. Tsander), ballistic missiles (chief - M. Tikhonravov), ramjets (chief - Yu. Pobedonostsev) and cruise missiles (chief - S. Korolev). In 1933 GDL and GIRD united with the help of marshal M. Tukhachevsky into the first in the world Research Missile Army Institute (RNII RKKA) in Moscow.

The best Soviet liquid-propellant engine in 1936-1938 was ORM-65 for cruise missile "212" (working time 215 s, controlled tractive force from 50 kgs to 175 kgs, automatic launching, could be used up to 50 times for parachute research missile). The maximum tractive force of the Soviet liquid-propellant engines of 1930s was 300-320 kgs.

Do anybody have additional info about first Soviet missiles?

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Post by BIGpanzer » 27 Aug 2005 11:00

Yesterday I found some short info about post-WWII Soviet AA missiles, based on the captured in 1945 German AA missiles “Wasserfall”, “Rheintochter” and “Schmetterling”. Also Soviets could capture technical documentation and testing equipment for them.

In 1946 four new departments were established in Missile Research Institute ( NII-88 ) – department of ballistic missiles (V-2 modernization) and three departments of AA missiles. Many German missile engineers worked there in 1940s.

In 1947-1948 the production of modernized copy of “Wasserfall” (Soviet radar guided AA missile R-101) started. R-101 missiles were made from the Soviet materials and used Soviet engines S08.101 (based on original German engine, but improved a lot), but directors for them were made in Germany. 14 missiles R-101 were produced in 1948 for testing and improved 18 missiles R-101 were produced in 1949 (with native directors and native powerful 8t tractive force engines). Later a new modifications appeared (R-101A, R-101B and R-101V), but the work was stopped in 1951 because of new more modern native missiles were developed. Near 30-50 R-101 missiles were produced.
So R-101 never served in army, only in experimental AA mussile division.
Specifications of R-101 were almost similar to “Wasserfall”: 3,6 t; 800 m/s; 20 km vertical range.

As for the “Rheintochter” – Soviet engineers decided to stop the work of its improvement because the construction was already obsolete.

“Schmetterling” was produced in USSR as experimental R-102 AA missile (0,46 t; 262 m/s; 16 km vertical range). First tests took place in 1949, using the launcher without guides. Later tests were quite successful, but the radar guiding of the missile was hard. So improved modification R-102M with better gyroscopes etc. appeared. But in 1950 the work was stopped also. In parallel Soviet engineers developed since 1948 the native original self-guided AA supersonic missile R-112 (weight 1500 kg with 100-270 kg of explosives; speed 700 m/s; range 15 km vertical and 20 km horizontal; two accelerator engines in addition to the main engine). The project was abandoned in 1951 as much better native AA missiles S-25 already appeared (modernized variants used till 1990s!)

Also unguided AA missiles R-103 (20,3 kg; range 17 km) and R-110, based on German "Typhoon" missiles, were built in 1948 (more than 200 copies) and tested till 1950.

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Post by BIGpanzer » 29 Aug 2005 07:37

Interesting, that Soviet Union developed tactical cruise missiles, based on German models, even during WWII.

In the end of 1944 the cruise missile KR-10HN (a little bit differ copy of German V1) was developed, based on secret intelligence data. KR-10HN should be used from the Tu-2 medium bombers and experimental series of such missiles were produced till the end of the war, but Soviets had no time to use them against German Army.

The same time another missile KR-16HN (also a copy of German V1, but with two engines instead one) was built. That long-range missile was planned to use from the heavy strategical bombers Pe-8, but again the war was finished and Soviets had no time to use it.

Does anybody have additional info or photos of those missiles? I have no additional info, unfortunately.
Regards, BIGpanzer
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