Seenotkommando

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
mike35nj
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 31 Oct 2004 20:09
Location: Denmark

Seenotkommando

Post by mike35nj » 12 Sep 2005 12:42

Hi all,

I'm trying to place the various Seenotkommando's used by the Luftwaffe from 1942, and have an incomplete list (main bases only) taken from a couple of books, as well as PRO AIR 40/1315 (German Air Force: organisation of Air/Sea rescue service, Jan 1944) and PRO AIR 40/1317 (German Air Force: numbered units of Air/Sea rescue service, Oct 1944).

Can anybody help complete this list or point to any sources that might be helpful?

Some of these may never have received a feldpost number, but as some of the numbers are in the 50000 range, these could simply be missing.

Seenotkommando
1 - Royan
2 - Brest
3 - Cherbourg
4 - Le Havre
5 - Dieppe
6 - Boulogne
7 - Calais
8 - Ostende
9 - Schellingwoude
10 - Libau(?)
11 - Pillau
12 - Tromsø
13 - Kirkenes
14 - Pola
15 - Benghasi, later NW Italy
16 - Tripoli, later Orbetello
17 - Suda Bay
18 - Varna
19 - Sevastopol, later Constanza
20 - Billefjord
21 - Tronsheim
22 - Bergen
23 - Aalborg
24 - Port Vendres
25 - Antibes(?)
26 - (?)
27 - List
28 - Kiel(?)
29 - La Spezia (Jan 44), Piombino area (Oct 44)
30 - Ravenna (Jun 44), Ancona (Oct 44)
31 - NW Italy
32 - (?)
33 - (?)
34 - (?)
35 - Split area

Best Regards,
Mike

Larry D.
Member
Posts: 4099
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 23:03
Location: Winter Springs, FL (USA)

Post by Larry D. » 12 Sep 2005 13:04

Do not assume that every number was used. More often than not, numbers were skipped, or planned but never completed, or planned, formed but then renumbered before they became operational, etc., etc.

10: did not exist
25: Antibes/8 km NE of Cannes in South France
26: possibly at Pori/Finland
28: Kiel-Holtenau
32: no evidence of its existence
33: no evidence of its existence
34: Narva Joesuu (Hungerburg)/15 km NW of Narva in NE Estonia
35: Formed (new) in October 1943 in Athens/Greece and then transferred a few weeks later to Split on the Dalmatian coast of Yugoslavia

Additional reference for you: AFHRA Maxwell: decimal K113 Karlsruhe Collection, unpublished manuscript “Geschichte d. Seenotdienst 1939-45”. This is also available at BA-MA Freiburg.

User avatar
Harri
Member
Posts: 4230
Joined: 24 Jun 2002 11:46
Location: Suomi - Finland

Post by Harri » 12 Sep 2005 16:54

Larry D. wrote:26: possibly at Pori/Finland
Do you have any more information on this one? Could it possibly be the same unit as the Seenotkommando "Finland"?

mike35nj
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 31 Oct 2004 20:09
Location: Denmark

Post by mike35nj » 12 Sep 2005 17:04

Larry,

Thanks.

I assume you mean K113.107-168 "The Air Sea Rescue Service of the German Air Force in the Second World War" by Carl Hess, microfilm roll K1026X, Studiengruppe Geschichte des Luftkrieges, Karlsruhe.

Info thanks to the friendly staff at AFHRA Maxwell.

Walter Grabmann wrote an 11 volume study called "German Air Defence" according to the AFHRA. Have you seen it, and what's your opinion? Is it worth the purchase?

Best Regards,
Michael

Larry D.
Member
Posts: 4099
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 23:03
Location: Winter Springs, FL (USA)

Post by Larry D. » 12 Sep 2005 17:08

Harri -

Here is all I have on it:

Seenotkommando 26

Formation and History. (1943 - Aug 44)
Formed (new) in mid-summer 1943, possibly at Pori/Finland. A Seenotkdo. was set up at Pori at this time but its number has never been confirmed. If this is the one, then it was subordinated to Seenotbereichskdo. IX (Kirkenes). Directed sea rescue operations in the Gulf of Bothnia between Finland and Sweden. Ordered disbanded on 19 August 1944.

FpN: (none found)

Leiter:

Larry D.
Member
Posts: 4099
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 23:03
Location: Winter Springs, FL (USA)

Post by Larry D. » 12 Sep 2005 17:21

mike35nj wrote:
Walter Grabmann wrote an 11 volume study called "German Air Defence" according to the AFHRA. Have you seen it, and what's your opinion? Is it worth the purchase?
Yes, I have read it, and no, in my honest opinion it would be a waste of money. Grabmann wrote it almost entirely from memory so it is almost void of details, order of battle, etc., plus there are a lot of errors. I know of very few people who have ever been able to find much that's useful in it. If we turned the clock back to 1955 and we knew nothing or next to nothing about the subject, then you might find it of some interest and use. But there has just been too much written on the subject since then for the Grabmann work to be of any value today. You would be best advised to wait for Donald Caldwell's forthcoming 2-volume opus on Reich Luftverteidigung, which will cover the subject in great detail.

--Larry

User avatar
Harri
Member
Posts: 4230
Joined: 24 Jun 2002 11:46
Location: Suomi - Finland

Post by Harri » 12 Sep 2005 17:55

Thanks, Larry!

User avatar
Erik E
Member
Posts: 4517
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 22:26
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Post by Erik E » 12 Sep 2005 19:57

I`ve never seen the word "Seenotkommando" used in Norway after 1941, either on documents or in books.....!
What kind of unit/command is this?

On your list you are definately missing Stavanger (Sola-See) in Norway, this was one of the 2 mainbases for the Seenotdienst in Norway.... But again,. I have no references where its called Seenotkommando in 1944!
Maybe thats your Nr.14?

Erik E

User avatar
Harri
Member
Posts: 4230
Joined: 24 Jun 2002 11:46
Location: Suomi - Finland

Post by Harri » 12 Sep 2005 22:30

I think German "Kommando" was a detached command from a (bigger) parent unit capable of operating independently.

mike35nj
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 31 Oct 2004 20:09
Location: Denmark

Post by mike35nj » 14 Sep 2005 12:02

Larry,

Thanks.

Erik,

A Seenotkommando were, as Harri wrote, a detachment, and was previously known as a Seenotbezirkstelle (before 1942).

The organisation in Stavanger was as follows (late 1942):

Seenotbereichskommando VIII in Stavanger with:

Seenotkommando 21 in Trondheim
Seenotkommando 22 in Bergen
5. Seenotstaffel
8. Seenotflotille

Michael

User avatar
Erik E
Member
Posts: 4517
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 22:26
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Post by Erik E » 14 Sep 2005 14:46

Thanks for clearing up!

I`ve seen documents with the name Seenotbezirkstelle, so that answers my question!

Was the term Seenotkommando in use until May 1945?

EE

Andreas
Member
Posts: 6938
Joined: 10 Nov 2002 14:12
Location: Europe

Post by Andreas » 18 Mar 2007 19:13

An interesting article on the development of Air Sea Rescue, particularly in the Luftwaffe.

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airc ... lford.html

All the best

Andreas

User avatar
byron
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 20:56
Location: Greece

Post by byron » 22 Mar 2007 17:55

Hi Mike,

Hier some info about the "german Rettungs-Dienst in Greece":

Seenotdienst


“Seenotzentrale Ägäisches Meer“: Kdr., Obstlt. Max-Georg Fengler


ab 10.04.1941 auf Mikra-Flghf. in Saloniki gelandet. Am 07.05.1941 nach Phaliron/Piräus verlegt,
(3 Ju52, 2 Fw 58 u. 3 Do 24) mit Seenotstützpunkten in Antikythira, Milos und Molai.

Gleich nach dem Kretaunternehmen wurde auch das Hilfsflugsicherungsschiff “Drache” der Seenotzentrale zur Verfügung gestellt. Später bekam sie noch die Motorjacht “Troll IV” dazu.
Am 05.06.1941 wurde Major Fengler nach Rußland verlegt. Seinen Posten bekam Major Bartels, nunmehr als „Seenotdienstführer Mittelmeer”.
Truppendienstlich wurden ihm unterstellt: die III. Seenotgruppe, bestehend aus der 6. Staffel, Oblt. Wölke in Syrakus, der 7. Staffel, Oblt. Tretter in Athen und der 8. Staffel, Oblt. Frhr. von Buchholz in Konstanza.
Im Dezember 1941 wurde Obstlt. Engelhorn „Seenotdienstführer 2” im Mittelmeer mit Sitz in Taormina/Sizilien. Major Bartels wurde nach Norddeutschland versetzt als Kdr. der II. Seenotgruppe.


Seenotbereichskommando (SBK) XI : Kdr., Oblt. Tretter

Sitz in Fhaliron bei Piräus mit der 7. Seenotstaffel mit Do 24 und JU 52 und der 11. Seenotflottille mit Flugbetriebsbooten.
Das SBK XI unterstand dem zur Luftflotte 2 gehörenden X. Fliegerkorps. Es wurde gegen Ende des Jahres 1942 mit diesem zusammen nach Iraklion auf Kreta verlegt. Vorher war bereits in der Sudabucht ein Seenotstützpunkt eingerichtet worden.

Die aus dem Schwarzmeerraum an die Westküste des Schwarzen Meeres zurückverlegten Seenoteinheiten zogen sich nach der Kriegserklärung Rumäniens an Deutschland am 25.08.1944 und der Erklärung Bulgariens "sich aus dem Krieg zurückzuziehen", vom 26.08.1944 in den Raum Saloniki zurück.
Es war die Seenotstaffel 8, die dadurch wieder in den Befehlsbereich des SBK XI zurückkehrte. Neuer Standort der Staffel 8, war ab 01.09.1944 Athen-Phaliron, dem Seenotbereichskommando XI, Obstlt. Securius unterstellt. Im Oktober 1944 trat an die Stelle des SBK die Seenotgruppe 70 unter Major Karl Sarges mit Adjutant Oblt. R. Meyer.
Aus Resten der Seenotstaffeln 6, 7 und 8 wurde eine neue Staffel unter Hptm. Hülsmann gebildet. Er verfügte über 19 Do 24. Eine zweite Staffel, mit sieben Ju 52 ausgestattet und von Oblt. Meyer geführt, unterstand ebenfalls der Seenotgruppe 70.
Die Seenotboote übernahm Hptm. Gabbert. Das Flugsicherungsschiff Drache war inzwischen an die Marine abgegeben worden. Am 10.10.1944 wurde die Staffel nach Saloniki verlegt.

Als die Seenotstaffel, von der sechs Do 24 und zwei Ju 52 übriggeblieben waren, in der Nacht zum 24.10.1944 aus Saloniki nach Wien startete, hatte sie etwa 3.000 deutsche Soldaten von den griechischen Inseln evakuiert.

01 792 (10.04.41-05.06.41) = Seenotzentrale Äg.Meer
Kdr., Major Max-Georg Fengler
Oblt. Guthoff, 05.41 Seenotstaffel in Saloniki
10.04.41 in Saloniki, ab 07.05.41 in Phaliron,
ab 05.06.41 wurde sie Seenotbereich XII./ Konstanza

04 656 (05.06.41-01.06.42) = Seenotzentrale (A) Athen
05.1941 in Piräus-Phaliron aufgestellt
Kdr., Major Adolf Bartels
01.06.42 wurde Seenotbereichskommando XI /Phaliron


Organisation:

Seenotbezirksstalle (L) Sudabucht (05.41-06.42)
Seenotkommando A (17.06.42-08.44)
7. Seenotstaffel (05.41-08.44)
11. Seenotflotille (05.41-08.44)

40 873 (05.41-06.42) = Seenot-Bezirksstelle (L) Sudabucht, dann Seenot-Kdo. 17
Kdr.,
40 873 (17.06.42-08.1944) = Seenot-Kdo.A / Suda
Kdr.,
40 873 (01.06.42-08.44) = Seenot-Kdo.17 d. Lw. / Suda Kdr.,
(05.41-08.44) = 11. Seenotflotille / Athen, ab 19.08.44 in Seenotflottille 70 umben.
Flugsicherungsboot 430, Kdt., Fw. Dunz
04 656 (22.04.41-01.06.42) = Seenotzentrale (L) Athen / Phaliron
04 656 (01.06.42-18.11.42) = Seenotbereichs Kdo. XI / Phaliron, entst. aus Seenotzentrale Athen
Kdr., Oblt. Tretter
Kdo. Schiffe u. Boote Außenstelle mittelmeer, Chef, Hptm. Schwarzlose
04 656 (18.11.42-01.01.43) = Seenotbereichs Kdo. XI / Iraklion Kreta
Kdr., Obstlt. Werner Securius
Flieger, Ofw. von Petersdorf, Ofw. Erdmann

04 656 (01.01.43-01.10.44) = Seenotbereichs Kdo. XI / wieder in Phaliron
Kdr., Obstlt. Werner Securius

04 656 (01.10.44-24.10.44) = Seenotgruppe 70 / aus dem Stab Seenotber.Kdo. XI in Phaliron
aufgestellt mit 19 Do 24 Kdr., Major Karl Sarges
Adj., Oblt. R. Meyer
2 neue Staffeln aus Resten der 6., 7. u. 8. Staffeln
1. Staff., St.Kpt., Hptm. Hülsmann,
2. Staff., St.Kpt., Oblt. August Meyer, gef. 20.09.44
Flieger, Ofw. Lange
Seenotboote, Kdr., Hptm. Gabbert

Organisation:

40 022 (07.05.41-08.44) = Seenotstaffel 7 d.Lw. mit Do 24, Fw 58, He 59, Ju 52, W 34
Aufgestellt im 04.41 in Deutschland; am 22.04.41 Ankunft in Saloniki, am 07.05.41 in Phaliron/Piräus
Unterstellt: 03.41-06.42 der Seenotzentrale (L) Athen
06.42-08.44 dem Seenotbereichskommando XI
St.Kpt., Oblt. Tretter
Flieger, Fw. Hermann Steckel, Uffz. Heinz Bliefert, Uffz. Ludwig Josepath, Uffz. Günther Weisshuhn

im 10.44 wurde als Seenotstaffel 70 Teil der Seenotgruppe 70
03.41-06.42 unterstand der Seenotzentrale (L) Athen
06.42-08.44 unterstand dem Seenotbereichskommando XI

40 143 (26.08.44-09.44) = Seenotstaffel 8 d.Lw. mit Ar 196, Do 24, Fw 58, He 59, W 34
Aufgestellt im 06.41 in Mamaia/Rumänien. Im 08.41 zum Kap Cherson, später nach Sevastopolis,
im 03.44 wieder nach Mamaia; im 08.44 über Varna nach Saloniki. 01.09.44 über Volos nach Piräus.
Unterstellt: 06.41-06.42 der Seenotzentrale Schwarzes Meer
06.42-08.44 dem Seenotbereichskommando XII; im 09.44 aufgelöst.
St.Kpt.,
Flieger, Uffz. Helmut Pöter

best regards from Hellas

Byron

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 10505
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Seenotkommando

Post by tigre » 06 Oct 2023 13:51

Hello to all :D; a complement..............................

Seenotstaffeln.

The rescue squadrons were created in 1939 to rescue people at sea using special aircraft. For this purpose, the Heinkel He-59 was used, which had a large hatch in the rear, several inflatable boats and a winch for rescuing people. The first distress squadron was set up in Norderney on August 1, 1939, the second in Pillau-Neutief on August 26, 1939. Both squadrons were disbanded in 1940. With the start of the Battle of Britain in June 1940, the need to set up new distress squadrons was quickly recognized, and so from June 1940 a total of 10 distress squadrons were created. These were again equipped with the Heinkel He-59. The planes were painted entirely white, bore large red crosses as markings and were unarmed. After several distress aircraft were shot down by the RAF in 1940, they began to camouflage and arm the aircraft again in late autumn 1940.

In 1943, 895 flying personnel and 1,700 other aircraft and ship crews were rescued alive, including 1,074 by German distress aircraft and 1,309 by distress boats. Among those rescued were 243 English and Americans, nine Russians, 22 Italians and six Romanians.

During a reorganization in August 1944, four squadrons were disbanded and the remaining six received the two-digit numbers 50 (former 10), 51 (5), 60 (1), 70 (7), 80 (4) and 81 (2). The background was, among other things, the combination of a distress squadron and a distress flotilla equipped with distress boats (or air traffic control ships) into distress groups, with the distress group, flotilla and squadron each receiving the same number.

In the last months of the war, Seenotflieger (rescue pilots) were often used in the Baltic Sea region to help the German population escape from the advancing Red Army.

Here the Seenot organization: http://www.luftwaffe-zur-see.de/Seenot/OrganSN.htm

Source: https://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gl ... derung.htm
https://www.buchfreund.de/de/d/p/961487 ... id=1&pid=1

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Edward L. Hsiao
Member
Posts: 2102
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 08:43
Location: Flagstaff,Arizona

Re: Seenotkommando

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 08 Oct 2023 02:44

Gentlemen,

Too bad there were no known crewmen of the Seenotkommando that were holders of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross.

Edward L. Hsiao

Return to “Luftwaffe air units and Luftwaffe in general”