HS-129 Panzerjager book - Stalingrad question?

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Russ Schulke
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HS-129 Panzerjager book - Stalingrad question?

Post by Russ Schulke » 26 Sep 2005 14:43

HS-129 Panzerjager, Martin Pegg, Pub. Classic UK 1997

[img]http://www.fireonthevolga.com/buch129[1].jpg[/img]

Are there any unit histories in the book?

Schlachtgeschwader 1 (Ground Attack Wing) participated in initial stages of the Stalingrad street battle. Is there any information relating to this period (August/September/October 1942) in this book. If yes, is the information one sentence, one paragraph, one page, a few pages, or one chapter? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Here is a picture from the German wartime magazine “Die Wehrmacht” showing an HS-129 in a dive west of Stalingrads tractor factory district.

Image

Image

Russ
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Larry D.
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Post by Larry D. » 26 Sep 2005 15:20

Are there any unit histories in the book?


Yes, plus all known Hs 129 losses in an extensive appendix in the back of the book. You will have to assemble the unit histories yourself since the author skips around quite a bit. But all of the details are there.

--Larry

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DenesBernad
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Re: HS-129 Panzerjager book - Stalingrad question?

Post by DenesBernad » 26 Sep 2005 19:31

Russ Schulke wrote:Here is a picture from the German wartime magazine “Die Wehrmacht” showing an HS-129 in a dive west of Stalingrads tractor factory district.

The photo seems doctored to me. Why would a ground attack Hs 129 perform such a dive? And what would it do at such an altitude? AFAIK, Hs 129s flew at much lower altitude, often at ground level.

Dénes

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Russ Schulke
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HS-129 Panzerjager - angle of attack - Stalingrad photo

Post by Russ Schulke » 13 Nov 2005 03:38

Found the HS-129 Panzerjager book. Great information but very little about the Stalingrad campaign. Two HS-129 lost in September 1942 over the city.

To: DenesBernad

The photo seems OK to me. Taken by a war correspondent, likely in the back seat of a spotter aircraft or Stuka during combat.

Roll the photo about 15º to the left, which makes the foreground level and the dive does not seem steep at all. In addition, if you look in the foreground and project the bases of the building to you it seems that the elevation is lower that when you first see the photo too.

Here is example from the HS-129 book to show you the ideal angle of attack for the plane.

Image



I BUY ALL THINGS STALINGRAD!
WEHRPASS - SOLDBUCH – PRIVATE / UNPUBLISHED PHOTO ALBUMS – DOCUMENTS – UNIFORMS
DOGTAGS - DEATH NOTICES – BOOKS - AERIAL PHOTOS - MAPS – ARCHIVAL RESEARCH - BOOKS
and DRK: Deutsches Rotes Kreuz Suchdienst Vermisstenbildliste. (German Red Cross WWII MIA books)

Presently looking for all DRK books with Stalingrad destroyed units in them. Here are the ones currently on the top of my list.
----------------------------------------------------
#1 Sturmgeschütz Abteilung 177, 244 & 245
#2 Infantry Regiments 544, 545 & 546
#3 Panzer Regiments 2, 24 & 36


Also, I am looking to purchase unit histories from the following German and Soviet units that fought during the Stalingrad battle. I am interested in books or research that covers the approaches to Stalingrad, the street and factory fighting time-period from August to November of 1942. (RUSSIAN, GERMAN, OR ENGLISH TEXTS ARE ALL ACCEPTABLE)


SOVIET UNIT HISTORIES - STALINGRAD (August to November of 1942)

62 Army

13 Guards Rifle Division
34, 39, 42 Guards Rifle Regiments - 32 Guards Artillery Regiment - 8 Guards Engineer Battalion

35 Guards Rifle Division
100 (composite) Guards Rifle Regiment -- 65 Guards Artillery Regiment

37 Guards Rifle Division
109, 114, 118 Guards Rifle Regiments -- 86 Guards Artillery Regiment

39 Guards Rifle Division
112, 117, 120 Guards Rifle Regiments -- 87 Guards Artillery Regiment

45 Rifle Division
10, 61, 253 Rifle Regiments -- 178 Artillery Regiment

95 Rifle Division
90, 161, 241 Rifle Regiments

112 Rifle Division
385, 416, 524 Rifle Regiments

131 Rifle Division
482 Rifle Regiment (composite)

138 Rifle Division
344, 650, 768 Rifle Regiments
295 Artillery Regiment

193 Rifle Division
685, 883, 895 Rifle Regiments -- 384 Artillery Regiment

196 Rifle Division
863 Rifle Regiment (composite)

244 Rifle Division
907, 911, 914 Rifle Regiments -- 776 Artillery Regiment

284 Rifle Division
1043, 1045, 1047 Rifle Regiments -- 820 Artillery Regiment

285 Rifle Division
38, 56, 64 Rifle Regiments

300 Rifle Division
1049, 1051, 1053 Rifle Regiment -- 822 Artillery Regiment

308 Rifle Division
399, 347, 35l Rifle Regiments -- 1011 Artillery Regiment

315 Rifle Division
724 Rifle Regiment (composite)

399 Rifle Division
399, 1345 Rifle Regiments (remnants)

10 NKVD Division
269, 270, 271, 272, 273, 282 Workers Militia Regiments

2 Tank Corp
26, 27 Tank Brigades

23 Tank Corps
6, 189 Tank Brigades -- 9 Motorized Rifle Brigade

INDEPENDENT BRIGADES
10 Replacement Rifle Brigade (4, 11, 390 Rifle Regiments -- 31 Motorized Rifle Regiment)
6 Guards Tank Brigade
84, 99, 133, 137 Tank Brigade
42, 115, 124, 149 Rifle Brigade
38 Motorized Rifle Brigade
13 Tank-Destroyer Brigade
92 Marine Rifle Brigade

INDEPENDENT REGIMENTS
186, 378, 397, 499, 508, 651 Tank-Destroyer (Anti-Tank) Regiments
85, 307, 331, 680, 1003, 1005, 1105 Artillery Regiments
19, 51, 89, 91 Guards Mortar (Rocket) Regiments
748, 1077, 1078, 1087 Anti-Aircraft Regiments

INDEPENDENT BATTALIONS
48, 50, 155, 188, 308, 416 Machinegun-Artillery Battalions
39, 49, 179, 212 Engineer Battalions
21 Tank Training Battalion
4 Anti-Tank Rifle Battalion
62 Security Battalion

INDEPENDENT COMPANIES AND MISCELLANEOUS 23, 73, 100, 102, 104, 105, 106, 107 Flamethrower Companies
67 Penal Company
51, 59 Armored Trains



GERMAN UNIT HISTORIES - STALINGRAD (August to November of 1942)

24 Panzer Division
Reitendes AR 1 - Panzerartillerie Regiment 89, by Heinz Meyer (1969)

94 Infantry Division
Erinnerungsbuch der 94. Infanterie-Division an die Kriegsjahre 1939 - 1945: Einsatz in Rußland 1941 bis Anfang 1943 Hans Horst Manitz, Kameradschaft der 94. Inf.Div., 1985, 360 pages

305 Infantry Division

389 Infantry Division

9th Flak Division

177th Sturmgeschütz Battalion
244th Sturmgeschütz Battalion
245th Sturmgeschütz Battalion


Russ :wink:
http://www.fireonthevolga.com

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Robb
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Post by Robb » 13 Nov 2005 13:29

Hi Russ,

Great info and an excellent web site. Thanks. :D Do you know what the AT armament of the HS-129 was?

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Russ Schulke
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HS-129 armament

Post by Russ Schulke » 13 Nov 2005 17:56

Hs 129B-1 Series - A late change was to replace the MG FF cannon by the much harder-hitting MG 151, occasionally in the high-velocity 15 mm form but usually in 20 mm calibre, with 125 rounds each (the bulges on each side of the fuselage were retained). Provision was also made for the addition of various field modification kits to add specialised weapons or equipment, nonnally hung either beneath the fuselage or under each outer wing. Modifications were continually having to be introduced to rectify faults, equipment and parts were late on delivery, and the planned output of 40 per month was not attained until mid-1943. By far the biggest single problem was the engine, which showed itself to be severely intolerant of either dust on the Eastern Front or, worse, sand in North Africa. Its reliability was extremely poor, and despite the most urgent investigations it took six months to find any sort of real cure. The first Staffel which received aircraft in April 1942, 4./SchG 1, had a very depressing experience in the push for the Caucasus in mid-1942, while at the end of the year the next unit, 4./SchG 2, suffered a series of disasters in North Africa and was eventually evacuated with no aircraft. During 1943 the tempo of Hs 129B effort increased greatly, but difficulties in production and high attrition made the actual build-up of Schlachtgeschwader units a frustrating process. On the other hand, the combat effectiveness of the aircraft increased considerably with the fitting of the modification kits (Rustsätze Kits), most notably the addition of a huge 30 mm MK 101 gun under the fuselage, with 30 shells. This had a lethal effect against all armoured vehicles except main battle tanks, and even these, were sometimes vulnerable when attacked from the rear. Other add-on loads included an internal camera, a battery of four MG 17 machine-guns or various loads of small bombs, especially boxes of 8.8 lbs (4 kg) SD4 hollow-charge bomblets which had considerable armour penetration capabilities. Production of all types, including prototypes, totalled 879.


Hs 129B-1/R1 - Two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 125 rounds per gun and two 7.92 mm (0.31 in) MG 17 machine-guns plus four 110 lbs (50 kg) SC 50 bombs or 96 (4 x 24) SD 2 4.4 lbs (2 kg) anti-personnel bombs or four boxes of 8.8 lbs (4 kg) SD4 hollow-charge bomblets which had considerable armour penetration capabilities. One ETC 50 ordnance rack was installed under each wing and two more could be installed under the fuselage for a total of four.


Hs 129B-1/R2 - Two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 125 rounds per gun and two 7.92 mm (0.31 in) MG 17 machine-guns plus a 30 mm Mk 101 cannon with 30 rounds in a ventral pack. Two ETC 50 racks could be installed under the wings each capable of carrying one 110 lbs (50 kg) SC 50 bomb or 48 (2 x 24) SD 2 4.4 lbs (2 kg) anti-personnel bombs or two boxes of 8.8 lbs (4 kg) SD4 hollow-charge bomblets. With a centerline gun installed no fuselage hardpoints could be used.


Hs 129B-1/R3 - Two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 125 rounds per gun and two 7.92 mm (0.31 in) MG 17 machine-guns plus four extra 7.92 mm (0.31 in) MG 17 machine-guns with 250 rounds per gun in a ventral pack.


Hs 129B-1/R4 - Two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 125 rounds per gun and two 7.92 mm (0.31 in) MG 17 machine-guns and provision for a single 551 lbs (250 kg) SC 250 bomb in place of the HS 129B-1/R1s two fuselage 110 lbs (50 kg) SC 50 bombs. With the centerline bomb installed, no wing racks were used due to weight restrictions.


Hs 129B-1/R5 - Two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 125 rounds per gun and two 7.92 mm (0.31 in) MG 17 machine-guns and provision for a Rb 50/30 camera for reconnaissance duties.




Hs 129B-2 Series - By the end of 1942 the growing capability of Soviet tanks made it essential to develop a version of the Hs 129 with greater firepower for anti-tank operations, leading to the Hs 129B-2 series which was introduced into service in the early part of 1943. The 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine-gun replaced the 7.92 mm (0.31) MG 17 machine-gun although some aircraft retained the smaller calibre gun for weight purposes.


Hs 129B-2/R1 - Two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 125 rounds per gun and two 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine-guns plus four 110 lbs (50 kg) SC 50 bombs or 96 (4 x 24) SD 2 4.4 lbs (2 kg) anti-personnel bombs or four boxes of 8.8 lbs (4 kg) SD4 hollow-charge bomblets which had considerable armour penetration capabilities. One ETC 50 ordnance rack was installed under each wing and two more could be installed under the fuselage for a total of four.


Hs 129B-2/R2 - Two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 125 rounds per gun and two 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine-guns plus a 30 mm MK 103 cannon with 30 rounds in a ventral pod. Two ETC 50 racks could be installed under the wings each capable of carrying one 110 lbs (50 kg) SC 50 bomb or 48 (2 x 24) SD 2 4.4 lbs (2 kg) anti-personnel bombs or two boxes of 8.8 lbs (4 kg) SD4 hollow-charge bomblets. With a centerline gun installed no fuselage hardpoints could be used


Hs 129B-2/R3 - Two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 125 rounds per gun plus a 37 mm BK 3,7 gun in a ventral pod. (The two 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine-guns were deleted due to accommodate the ammunition of the 37 mm BK 3,7 gun).


Hs 129B-2/R4 - Two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 125 rounds per gun and a mechanically fired 75 mm (2.95 in) Pak 40L gun with 12 rounds. In some cases the Pak 40L was replaced with a 75 mm (2.95 in) BK 7,5 gun (modified PaK 40L).


Hs 129B-2/R5 - Two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 125 rounds per gun and two 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine-guns plus provision for a Rb 20/30 camera for reconnaissance duties. In the reconnaissance role, no additonal ordnance was carried.


Hs 129B-2/Wa (Waffentrager or Weapons carrier) - The Hs 129B-2/Wa had its armamemnt factory installed rather than a field installation using a Rustsätze Kit. Armament consisted of two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 125 rounds per gun and two 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine-guns plus a 30 mm MK 103 cannon with 30 rounds in an under fuselage mouting. Some factory installations used the 37 mm BK 3,7 gun instead, which required the deletion of the two 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine-guns.


Hs 129B-3/Wa (Waffentrager or Weapons carrier) - The Hs 129B-3/Wa was developed from the Hs 129B-2/R4, the PaK 40L gun being replaced by a factory installed 75 mm BK 7,5 gun (modified PaK 40L). The gun had a much larger muzzle brake an electro-pneumatically operated system which fed successive shells automatically. The gun was provided with 26 rounds which could be fired at a cyclic rate of 40 rounds per minute. It was so heavy and ungainly that it affected the flight characteristics of the aircraft to such an extent, that in the case of an emergency, the gun attachments were made jettisonable.



Hs 129C - There were plans for a supposedly improved Hs 129C. It would have been powered by two 840 hp (626.8 kW) Isotta-Fraschini Delta IV inverted Vee 12 cylinder engines, giving better performance, and would normally have carried twin 30 mm MK 103 cannons mounted in a kind of turret beneath the fuselage, with a small amount of traverse under pilot control. This version was abandoned because of the unavailability of the Italian engines.


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Robb
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Post by Robb » 14 Nov 2005 12:47

Greetings from Downunder Russ.

Great information on the armament of the Hs-129! :D Thanks very much.

regards Robert (Robb)

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