Germany and Ottoman Empire relationship in ww1

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
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akinci
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Germany and Ottoman Empire relationship in ww1

Post by akinci » 30 Sep 2005 22:10

We all know Ottoman Empire lost Balkan countries in Balkan War in 1912, by the way the Empire's land connections are unconnected with Germany and Austria-Hungary Empire.But we also know they helped each other during war as allies.

Can you give me information about how the axis forces helped each other during war?Any information about their relationships with the Ottoman Army are welcome.Turkish Officers in axis forces,German and Austrian Officers in Ottoman Army,the front lines they fight for each other,equipments and trainings they share etc...

Thanks already!

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seljuk
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Post by seljuk » 01 Oct 2005 09:40


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Mehmet Fatih
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Post by Mehmet Fatih » 01 Oct 2005 13:35

Akinci,

After the Ottoman victory in Dardanelles, Bulgaria joined the Axis and it became possible for Germany to help Ottoman empire.
In the last days of Gallipoli campaign,Ottoman army get German artillery shells and used them against British and French forces.
In the war, in every front that Ottoman Army fought, there were German officers.During Gallipoli campaign, some MG teams of Ottoman Army were consisted of German soldiers.Also the commander of the 5th army in Gallipoli was a German, Marshall Liman von Sanders. There were many staff officers or company and batallion commanders everywhere.One of the most remarkable German commander in Gallipoli was Weber Pasha.
Ottoman 15th Army corps fought with Germans and Austrians against Russia.
We made an extended discussion about the equipment in the topic about Galicia.

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bob lembke
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Allies

Post by bob lembke » 01 Oct 2005 16:39

Guys;

At the time of Gallipoli I believe there were about 500 German officers with the Turks. The largest German unit at Gallipoli was my father's volunteer company of pioneers of about 200 men. They had, right away, 80% casualties (including sickness), and replacements were brought in; I think my father was with the group of replacements, and that he served on the ANZAC beachhead, from his description of the terrain and the presence of Austrian mortars. (He was not wounded, but caught malaria.) There also were German MG units, some formed by volunteer sailors from the Goeben and Breslau warships that had joined the Turks.

The arrival of German shells and two batteries of heavy guns, a battery of 15 cm German howitzers at the south beachhead, and a battery of Austrian 24 cm mortars at ANZAC, was very important. (My father mentioned seeing the latter, and that when they took part you could see the ANZAC graves climb higher up a hillside every morning.) The shells that the Turks had been producing, with German help, would fire, but were quite liable to not explode at the other end, and German officers state that they often were fired more for morale than for effect. (I even think that the Germans had brought in a little bit of German ammunition on the small submarines of the time.) I'm sure that the sudden effectiveness of the Turkish artillery fire was a nasty surprise to the Allies. I have a quote in my notes, where a high Allied general (Birdwood or Hamilton, I think) telling someone, probably Bean, that they feared "being shelled off the beaches", being one reason to pull out.

The Serbs had really destroyed the railroads and the first Germany - Istanbul train got through in early 1916. So I am sure that it took a lot of effort to move the ammunition and the heavy artillery across Serbia. But it was worth the effort.

I think, generally, despite some differences and understandable conflicting interests, the Germans and Turks were good and faithful allies and helped each other a good deal throughout the entire war.

Bob Lembke

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Mehmet Fatih
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Post by Mehmet Fatih » 04 Oct 2005 17:28

Hey Bob Lembke,

The commandant of the Ottoman ammunition factory in Ataköy/Istanbul was a German officer.He created a miracle in production.He was in German Navy.He was the captain of a German warship.But his ship was sunk by a sea mine in Baltic Sea.He was court martialed and found guilty.He was sent to Turkey as a punishment.Admiral Souchon rejected to give him a place in Ottoman Navy.He sent him to Gallipoli.Von Sanders also rejected him and sent him to Istanbul as the commandant of the amunition factory.The factory was no more than a ruin.He turned this ruin into an ammunition factory.He produced high quality amunition in short time.
I am sorry but i cant remember his name.I will check him again.

Regards
Last edited by Mehmet Fatih on 05 Oct 2005 13:30, edited 1 time in total.

graf
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Post by graf » 05 Oct 2005 06:06

I can’t speak with knowledge on the subject as a whole however it is a well known fact that the Turks received large numbers of rifles from the Germans starting in 1916- primarily the Gewehr88 & Gewehr98 but also some 98a rifles as well (a & b), most seem to be by contract with Mauser Oberndorf.

Mauser Oberndorf (c) had a long pre-war relationship with Turkey so its not surprising Mauser would be chosen to do much of the supply, there are no recorded figures for the numbers of which rifle went when but:

John Walters “Central Powers Small Arms of WWI” page 190 “ The first consignment left Berlin on 19 Jan 1916; by the end of World War One 230,000 rifles, 22,000 handguns & nearly 2000 machine guns had been sent to Turkey”

(a) Some speculate these were post war shipments as the 98a was the primary rifle in use by 1918 and the Germans even started to cut back on Gewehr98 production to favor 98a production by late 1917/1918, even going so far as having the state arsenal at Danzig start back up for 98a production in 1918- from 1915-1918 only one factory was producing the 98a and that was Erfurt and each year production grew as demand increased… Danzig was most certainly one of the top Gew98 producers before & during the war, certainly no 1 or 2 right up there with Spandau, that they were interrupted to go to 98a production shows the level of interest there was to increase production of the shorter rifle.
(b) In 2002 I had correspondence with a Turkish collector who owned a 98a (1917 Erfurt) that belong to his family and it was said used during the Great War but I have no documentation to support it.
(c) The vast majority of 1916-1918 Mauser made Gewehr98 one observes today spent time in Turkey.

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akinci
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Post by akinci » 05 Oct 2005 10:44

what abot the austrians? didn't they(ottoman empire and austria-hungarian empire) support eachother during the whole war?

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 05 Oct 2005 13:06

The Germans and Turks were the only allies in WW1 that deliberately fired on each other:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... hp?t=53386

There was no Axis in WW1--it was the Central Powers.

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Mehmet Fatih
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Post by Mehmet Fatih » 05 Oct 2005 13:29

Peter H wrote:The Germans and Turks were the only allies in WW1 that deliberately fired on each other:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... hp?t=53386

There was no Axis in WW1--it was the Central Powers.
I have seen that in Erickson's Ordered to Die.Interesting indeed.
Also there is a record of a murder commited by German soldiers in Konya.Some drunk soldiers killed a Turkish railway guard with rifle butts.

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Re: Germany and Ottoman Empire relationship in ww1

Post by Cantankerous » 19 Jan 2021 02:53

Did the German high command want the Ottomans to conquer Turkic lands in the Caucasus and Central Asia because they thought that such a move would weaken Russia militarily in World War I? Were any German military officers aware of the Ottoman plans to exterminate the Armenians and Greeks?

Tosun Saral
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Re: Germany and Ottoman Empire relationship in ww1

Post by Tosun Saral » 20 Jan 2021 13:05

Cantankerous, exterminate is a subjective word. There was no extermination of armenians during WW1 but deportation of some armenians to safer places living behind turco-russian front. On the other hand extermination of greeks is also provacative and subjective. No greek was exterminated during WW1. secondly I would be pleased to remaind you that such discussions are closed by administration in 2007.

Cantankerous
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Re: Germany and Ottoman Empire relationship in ww1

Post by Cantankerous » 29 Jul 2021 02:50

There's a link about the Ottoman Air Force, and it talks about how Germany supplied the Ottoman Empire with military aircraft.

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