LSSAH murders 1000 jews, 1941?

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Harro
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LSSAH murders 1000 jews, 1941?

Post by Harro » 04 Oct 2005 18:46

Hallo all,

I have some vague information that the LSSAH murdered "1000 civilians" (jews) in Taganrog in 1941. Exacutions were carried out by a Sonderkommando led by a Sturmbannführer. Unfortunately this is all I know. All additional information is most welcome!

Thanks in advance,
Timo

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Kameraden
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Post by Kameraden » 04 Oct 2005 19:15

And the sources for your vague information??

Thanx

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Harro
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Post by Harro » 04 Oct 2005 20:01

The memories of a StuG-Battr. LSSAH veteran who got into an argument with his Ostuf. because he did not like what was happening (understatement).

Vincent
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Post by Vincent » 04 Oct 2005 20:05

The source is an investigation about the war crimes of a Sturmmann who was a suspected witness of those crimes.
The source of the investigtion is the Bundesarchiv Berlin, a message to the "Spruchkammer Recklinghausen" and the police of Weimar.
Like Timo said:
In the document is stated that there was a execution of 1000 civilians jews in the Winter 1941/1942 in the cities of taganrog and Mariupol.

c.g.
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Post by c.g. » 05 Oct 2005 10:00

According to the German Historian Andrej Angrick (Besatzungspolitik und Massenmord. Die Einsatzgruppe D in der südlichen Sowjetunion 1941-1943, Hamburger Edition, Hamburg, 2003, p. 315-318) there was indeed a close cooperation between Sonderkommando 10a (Ostf. Seetzen) and LSSAH. Sepp Dietrich supported "nach Kräften" Sk 10a. After Taganrog fell on October 18 1941, Jews were ordered to wear a Jewish star badge. On October 25, Ortskommandant I/253 253 (Major Averdunk) ordered the Jews to concentrate on Wladimirplatz. 1800 came. From there they were brought to Petrushina Balka and shot there in batches. According to German witnesses accounts (Angrick makes ref. to the accounts of Otto Nürnberg, Alfred Illmer, Richard Tögel, Kurt Trimborn in proceedings of Staatsanwaltschaft München I 22 Js 201/61) Seetzen chose to kill family groups. So - still according to Angrick, p. 316 (ref. Aussage Otto Nürnberg) - families came together forward to be shot. First the father with the older children, behind him the mother with smaller childs. Seetzen was heard ask: "Ist das die ganze Familie? Gut, gut, weitermachen!".
CG

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Harro
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Post by Harro » 05 Oct 2005 15:00

That's extremely interesting info c.g.! It seems very well possible that the veteran witnessed this massacre.

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Earldor
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Post by Earldor » 05 Oct 2005 18:55

Timo Worst wrote:That's extremely interesting info c.g.! It seems very well possible that the veteran witnessed this massacre.


Do you think that he might want to share his recollections with us and the forum?

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Harro
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Post by Harro » 06 Oct 2005 08:21

Earldor, he died twenty years ago. His memories are on paper but I am in a position to decide about publishing his recollections.

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Post by Earldor » 06 Oct 2005 10:09

Timo Worst wrote:Earldor, he died twenty years ago. His memories are on paper but I am in a position to decide about publishing his recollections.


Ok, got ya

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Post by Rob - wssob2 » 06 Oct 2005 14:04

Many of the works I've seen on the LSSAH make passing references to the late 1941 war crimes, though details are sketchy. Here's what I have

Aug 1941:
Allegations of war crimes: In 1948 Viennese journalist and former member of the LAH 4th Battalion writes Der Grosse Rausch (republished in 1951 in English as Dance of Death). In the book Kern alleges that in the late summer of 1941, German troops found the bodies of 103 men from the Heer 16th Infantry Division at Gejgova. The German troops had been captured by the Red Army and then hung. Kern's battalion found the bodies of an additional 6 executed Gemans at Nowo Danzig. Kern recounts that Dietrich ordered the LAH to shoot 4,000 Red Army prisoners in repisal. (note: it is unclear if the order was to shoot 4,000 already captured prisoners or to not take any Red Army prisoners for 3 days). Former SS officer and LSSAH veteran Rudolf Lehmann, who wrote the official unit history of the division, disputed the allegation.

However, there's an alternate version of events:

Oct 1941
Alernate version & month for the 4,000-man/3-day massacre: LSSAH captures Taganrog & find the mutilated bodies of 6 fellow SS troopers who were previously captured & executed in the town's political police HQ. In reprisal, Deitrich orders the LAH to shoot all surrendering Soviet troops for 3 days. The division kills an estimated 4,000.

And a third version of events:

March 1942
March 28: The bodies of members of 3rd Company, I Battalion, LAH are found by German forces at the gormer GPU Headquarters in Taganrog. A report of their death and mutilation is sent to Himmler. This may be the incident that sparked the alleged 4,000 reprisal killings/3-day take no prisoners order.


Sources:
Hitler's Gladiator - Charles Messenger - Brassey's - 2001
The Waffen-SS: Hitler's Elite Guard at War - George H. Stein - Cornell University Press - Ithica, NY - 1965

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 27 Dec 2007 17:41

I've seen these alleged 4000 killings mentioned in passing in some sources over the years but as Rob points out above there appear to be different versions of the events. What is the current positions on these events among LAH experts?

/Marcus

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Re: LSSAH murders 1000 jews, 1941?

Post by isaha » 29 Feb 2012 13:40

In the recent years a few books and articles dedicated to the wartime history of Taganrog have been published. All of these books are available only in Russian so you may read a short article on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taganrog_d ... rld_War_II dedicated to Taganrog in 1941-1945.

Some of the images in the wiki article were scanned by myself in the local state archive. The information on SS and other German intelligence services in Taganrog was recently made public by the federal security service and appears as it is in the book.

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