Crete Nov 1943

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crolick
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Crete Nov 1943

Post by crolick » 25 Oct 2005 20:24

Hello,

I'm looking for any information on German AA battery located in Eastern Crete [between Cape Sideros and Sitia] in November 1943. On 19.XI.43 Allied sub was shelled by 88 or 100 mm AA artillery, though I do not know the exact location. Any information [unit name, place of stationing, used weapons] would be wormly welcomed. Thanks in advance.

Best wishes,
crolick

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crolick
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Post by crolick » 29 Oct 2005 08:21

Over 50 views, and nobody know anything?! :cry:

At least can anyone tell me where I can search for such an information?! [Book, Archive, Internet Forum, etc.]

Thanks!

Regards,
crolick

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Mr Holmes
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Post by Mr Holmes » 29 Oct 2005 09:22

No answer in this post

Hi Crolick,

I would loved to have been able to supply you with the necessary information, unfortunately, things pertaining to this apsect of the war (ie. Greece) are few and far between. Most of what comes out of Greece really focuses on the ELAS movement (not even October 28, 1940!). I will keep a look out for you and obviously keep you posted if I do find something.

My apologies for not giving you what you want.

-edit-

Oh, and I can tell you with some certainty that this was not covered by Anton Beevor in his Crete.

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Michael Emrys
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Post by Michael Emrys » 29 Oct 2005 19:47

One thing I can tell you is that the sub would not have been shelled by a 100mm AA gun, for there was no such thing in the German inventory so far as I am yet aware. They did have a 105mm, but I am sceptical that it would have been sent to Crete. Those were almost entirely devoted to homeland defense. Quite possibly it could have been a 105mm field howitzer as those were quite common, or a captured gun of almost any caliber pressed into coast defense.

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spiro
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Re: Crete Nov 1943

Post by spiro » 29 Oct 2005 23:47

crolick wrote:Hello,

I'm looking for any information on German AA battery located in Eastern Crete [between Cape Sideros and Sitia] in November 1943. On 19.XI.43 Allied sub was shelled by 88 or 100 mm AA artillery, though I do not know the exact location. Any information [unit name, place of stationing, used weapons] would be wormly welcomed. Thanks in advance.

Best wishes,
crolick
I've tried a search on Greek sites, but nothing came up-sorry.

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crolick
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Post by crolick » 30 Oct 2005 21:53

Hello all!

Thanks for your answers :) At least we can start with something :wink: Whether those were AA guns or like Grease_Spot pointed out howitzers?! The shore in the area was very steep. In fact there were only high rocks on the shore. So landing was impossible there. Hence I think that shore artillery shouldn't be placed there. Personally I think it was 88 mm AA guns, but I'm looking for the confirmation of this thesis...

As cdr of the ship wrote:
"Two AA batterires were firing with shrapnels from distansa circa 4 000 yards". Is this information any use?! :roll:

Lately I was on Crete and in the bookstore I was searching for such an information. Sadly no book mentioned about any German units in 1943 at all! Only invasion of 1941 and resistance is covered... :?

Best wishes,
crolick

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asiaticus
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Post by asiaticus » 30 Oct 2005 23:40

The German garrison of Crete November 1943 was:

Military Commander Crete
- 22nd Infantry Division
- Fortress Region "Kreta" - 2nd Kreta Fortress Brigade
-- "Kreta" Panzer Battalion
-- 212. Panzer Battalion
-- 440th Fortress Regiment "Kreta"
-- 621 Landesschützen Battaillon
-- 622 Landesschützen Battaillon
-- 623 Landesschützen Battaillon
-- Fortress Artillery Regiment "Kreta" (ex 752 Artillery Regiment)
--- I. Battalion (ex 283 Artillery Battalion) with 8 batteries GebG 36 75mm Mountain Guns
--- II. Battalion (ex 1021 Artillery Battalion) with 6 batteries GebH 40 105mm Mountain Howitzers
--- III. Battalion (ex 834 Artillery Battalion) with 4 batteries sFH 18 150mm Howitzers
-- Pionier Battalion "Kreta"
- Army Coast Artillery Regiment "Kreta" (150mm,210mm guns or Howitzers)
- 520 Marine Artillery Abteilung (75mm, 105mm, 150mm and 203mm Costal artillery)

If it was a 100mm gun, it might have been some captured Italian artillery, from the disarmament of the Italian units on Crete 9/43, two months previously.

These were 51st Siena Division, LI Infantry Brigade , L Coastal Brigade.
Italian Divisional artillery usually had a battalion of 100mm guns. While these costal defense brigades sometimes did too.

If it was an 88mm AA gun then it may have been a Luftwaffe Air Defense unit of some kind. A Lutfwaffe Division had been on Crete up until 2/43 and there were undoubtably other Luftwaffe units still there at the time.

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Post by crolick » 31 Oct 2005 19:43

Hello asiaticus,

many thanks for your post! This is something on which I can dig a bit!! :)

So the battery for which I'm looking for should be one of those:
- 1021 Artillery Battalion
- 520 Marine Artillery Abteilung
- some Luftwaffe AA unit
- some ex Italian Artillery

Where I can find some information regarding displacement of Luftwaffe AA units?!

On Marine-Artillerie-Abteilung 520 I have only this:
feldgrau.com wrote:Formed 2.41 in Pillau for Greece. 3.41 to Plovdiv (Bulgaria), and 7.41 to Crete, now with 2 companies. 1944 had 7 batteries. Reorganised 12.44, now with Stab and 6. - 12./MAA520 on Crete.
Anyone have something more?!

I have something more on Luftwaffe AA unit :D :
http://www.ww2.dk wrote:Kreta (in Iraklion):

Stab/Flak-Regiment 58 (6.41 - 5.45)

Kommandeure:

Oberst Theodor Schlange, 1941 - 8.42
Obstlt Eginhard Augustin, 8.42 - 14.12.43
Oberst Engelbert Massing, 15.12.43 - 8.5.45
Formed late 1941 on Crete (Iraklion).

Service:

1.11.43 on Crete under 19. Flak-Division, with s.131 (v), s.286 (v), s.806 (v), le.73 (mot.), gem. I./23 (mot.) and gem II./12 (mot.)
Once again many thanks for your help! :D

Regards,
crolick

PS. Lately I received unconfirmed information that the battery could be located on the coasts of the Faneromeni Bay [West to Sitia]. Is there any chance to confirm this piece of information?! :roll:
Last edited by crolick on 01 Nov 2005 00:02, edited 2 times in total.

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asiaticus
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Post by asiaticus » 31 Oct 2005 20:44

Id ask around on the Feldgrau forum.

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crolick
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Post by crolick » 31 Oct 2005 22:59

I've already posted there the same post, but so far I received only reference to 520 Marine Artillery Abteilung :roll:

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Kim Sung
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Post by Kim Sung » 01 Nov 2005 14:27

Although this is off-topic, I have an enquiry.

I've read in a book that Cretans were on bad terms with Greeks who live in Greek proper. So, when Germans were planning Operation Merkure in May 1941, they expected local Cretans wouldn't cooperate with Greek forces who retreated from the mainland and wouldn't resist German rule. Contrary to their expectation, Cretans strongly resisted German invasion and occupation.

Anyway, is it true that Cretans had a bad relationship or sentiment towards their counrtymen who live in the mainland?

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spiro
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Post by spiro » 01 Nov 2005 15:31

I've never heard a thing about Cretans not want to cooperate with the rest of the Greek forces.
Never.
Im a Greek born and raised in my Country's mainland and i never had a problem with a Cretan.
In fact I've spend some summers on the island and its people are very friendly.
Altough tuff and often ready for some shooting (most of them are armed) they can be nice or bad to everyone equally.
They are very sensitive at "honor" matters (you cand expect to curse a Cretans mother in him and then leave the island standing).

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crolick
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Post by crolick » 01 Nov 2005 16:00

Hello,

I'm still gathering the information. I know that it wasn't any Luftwaffe unit [none was in the area]. Thus we have still man possibiliteis:
1. Fortress Artillery Regiment “Kreta” [ex. 752 Artillery Regiment] consiting of I/ [ex. 283 Artillery Battalion], II/ [ex. 1021 Artillery Battalion] and III/ [834 Artillery Battalion] battalions
2. Army Coast Artillery Regiment “Kreta”
3. 520 Marine Artillery Abteilung
4. ex Italian Coastal Brigade from 51st Siena Division

Any ideas where I can find info on that!?

Once again many thanks for your help!

Best wishes,
crolick

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crolick
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Post by crolick » 10 Nov 2005 23:11

Hallo all,

thank to your help I was able to obtain following data. Any corrections are wormly welcomed:

Heers Küsten Artillerie Regiment 697
Küsten Artillerie Abteilung 283 (Obstlt. Kessal) Pirgos area
1. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
2. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
3. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
2. Batterie/903 with 4 x 10.5 cm Czech guns
3. Batterie/903 with 4 x 10.5 cm Czech guns

Küsten Artillerie Abteilung 834 (Maj. Baumann)
1. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
2. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
3. Batterie with 4 x 21 cm guns
4. Batterie with 4 x 10.5 Greek guns
5. Batterie with 4 x 10.5 cm guns
6. Batterie with 4 x 10.5 guns
7. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns

Küsten Artillerie Abteilung ‘Brinkmeier’
1. Batterie/475 with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
4. Batterie/283 with 4 x 10.5 cm guns
6. Batterie/903 with 4 x 7.5 cm Italian guns

Heers Küsten Artillerie Regiment 752
Küsten Artillerie Abteilung 475 (Hptm. Vest) Iraklion area with Stab in Nea Fortetsa
2. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
3. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
4. Batterie with 4 x 10.5 cm guns

Küsten Artillerie Abteilung 829
1. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
2. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
3. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns

Küsten Artillerie Abteilung 901
1. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
3. Batterie with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
4. Batterie with 4 x 10.5 cm Italian guns
5. Batterie with 4 x 7.6 cm Italian guns
6. Batterie with 4 x 10.5 cm Italian guns

Küsten Artillerie Abteilung 903 (Maj. Rummel) Mirabella Bay area with Stab in Roussa Limni
2. Batterie/901 with 6 x 15.5 cm guns
4. Batterie with 4 x 7.5 cm Italian guns
5. Batterie with 4 x 10.5 cm Italian guns


Since I presume that this battery shelled the sub, any information regarding this batterie is mostly valuable for me!!

520 Marine Artillery Abteilung
6. Batterie ‘Dramia’ with 3 x 15.5 cm K416(F) guns [Dramia]
7. Batterie ‘Mathes’ with 3 x 15.5 cm K416(F) guns [Mathes]
8. Batterie ‘Drapanon’ with 3 x 15 cm SK L/45 guns [Drapanos]
9. Batterie ‘Kokkino Chorio’ with 6 x 15.5 cm K418(F) guns [Kokino Horio]
10. Batterie ‘Akotiri Ost’ with 3 x 15 cm SK L/45 guns [Aroni]
11. Batterie ‘Akotiri West’ with 4 x 15 cm SK L/45 guns [Stavros]
12. Batterie ‘Cape Spatha’ with 2 x 15 cm SK L/55 C/28 guns [Kap Spanda]

Thanks!

Regards,
crolick

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Michael Emrys
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Post by Michael Emrys » 11 Nov 2005 06:01

Just a thought: I have a strong hunch that all those 15.5cm guns were either French or French-made, since that is not a standard size for weapons produced in Germany. I also wonder if any of those weapons labeled as "guns" might instead actually be howitzers. Possibly not, since the employment in coast defense, i.e. anti-maritime, use argues against it, but howitzers were sometimes used in that role and I tend to think that Crete might be a place where that was somewhat more likely.

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