Russian anti tank weapons

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MattE
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Russian anti tank weapons

Post by MattE » 28 Nov 2005 07:27

I'm talking about weapons like the piat and bazooka. I know they used anti-tank rifles etc. And I know that Russia didn't produce its own anti-tank weapons until 1949. So did they get any (bazookas for example) through the lend-lease program? Or did they just stick to the rifles and mines?

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Post by Stephan » 28 Nov 2005 13:11

I think they used the anti-tank 14.5 mm rifle PTRD wersion 1941 throught the whole war.
Before that probably a earlier version of this antitank rifle.

this link in polish, but you see pictures and can probably understand the numbers.

http://jurek.com.pl/bron2ws/index2.php? ... =bs&nr=006

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BIGpanzer
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Post by BIGpanzer » 28 Nov 2005 20:17

Soviet infantry used against AFVs during the whole WWII:

a) anti-tank hand grenades RPG-40 and RPG-41 (weight 1.2 kg) mod. 1940-1941, anti-tank cumulative hand grenades RPG-6 and RPG-43 (both since 1943, they could penetrate 75mm-120mm armor).

http://infvstanks.newmail.ru/gr/rpg41.jpg (RPG-41)
http://ut2004.wickedpenguin.com/images/ ... _41_43.jpg (RPG-40, RPG-41, RPG-43)
http://infvstanks.newmail.ru/gr/rpg6.jpg (RPG-6)
http://www.inert-ord.net/russ02i/rpg43/ (RPG-43 web page)

b) Molotov cocktails (huge amount of types - with different sticky self-priming high-temperature flammable liquids, which were developed by Soviet chemists during WWII)
http://www.mes.ru/it/gusev_a/Oryzh/buttles/buttless.jpg
http://www.weltkrieg.ru/images/original/41/4086.jpg

c) Quite seldom (mainly during the Battle of Moscow, 1941) the rifle anti-tank grenades (VKG-40, VPGS-41) were used.
http://infvstanks.newmail.ru/grvint/vkg-40.jpg (VKG-40)
http://infvstanks.newmail.ru/grvint/grd.jpg (VKG-40)


d) anti-tank 14.5 mm rifles PTRD-41 (mod. 1941, single-shot) and PTRS-41 (mod. 1941, semiautomatic, five-shot magazine).
preWWII 14.5 mm anti-tank rifles of Rukavishnikov type were used in small amount in 1941.
Also powerful 20 mm anti-tank rifles RES (could penetrate 70mm armor at the distance 300 m) were produced in small amounts in 1942-1943

http://www.secondeguerre.net/Armes/ptrd41.jpg (PTRD-41, more than 200.000 were produced in 1941-1942)
http://infvstanks.newmail.ru/ptrus/d5.JPG (PTRD-41)

http://www.deadboneplatoon.com/equipment/ptrs-41.gif (PTRS-41, near 65.000 were produced in 1941-1942)
http://infvstanks.newmail.ru/ptrus/s2.JPG (PTRS-41 as AA gun)

http://infvstanks.newmail.ru/ptrus/pec.JPG (20mm AT rifle RES)

Soviets developed and produced in small amounts different types of recoilless anti-tank rifles and light guns (in principle, they were "bazookas") of Petropavlovsky and Kurchevsky type in 1930s. But a very-very few amount of experimental recoilless guns were in the regular army in 1941.
Several experimental "bazookas" were developed in 1943-1944 (LPG-44, DRG-40)

http://www.kalashnikov.ru/images/10/09/Imgp0009.jpg (Soviet automatic grenade launcher, a very small amounts were tested during the Winter War, 1940)
http://infvstanks.newmail.ru/grm/rus/rkkur.jpg (37mm recoilless AT-rifle of Kurchevsky type, 1930s, 325 were produced)
http://infvstanks.newmail.ru/grm/rus/rrpetr.jpg (65mm experimental "bazooka" of Petropavlovsky type, 1931!)

e) 12.7 mm heavy SMG DShK with armor-piercing bullets
http://www.secondeguerre.net/Armes/dshk.jpg

f) different models of hand and stationary flamethrowers and special very light mortars ("ampulomets") for tossing the 6-8 thick glass spheres with 1 L of flammable liquids per minute

http://orbat.com/site/wilson/Soviet/sma ... action.jpg (flamethrower ROKS-2)

http://www.ww-2.com/modules/htmlparser/ ... lomet2.jpg (ampulomet)
http://infvstanks.newmail.ru/zs/amp.jpg (ampulomet)

g) also AT-dogs, carrying two AT mines, were used quite often.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=88267
Several radio-operated AT-tankettes ET-1-627 were used in 1941 during the Battle of Moscow and in 1942 During the Battle of Kerch and Sevastopol, also near Leningrad.
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 29 Nov 2005 00:09, edited 1 time in total.

MattE
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Post by MattE » 28 Nov 2005 23:58

Good info. Thanks

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Post by Stephan » 29 Nov 2005 00:03

infantery used also very often simply a bunch of handgrenades (3-4) bound together and thrown at the tanks (ie "the decks/steeltires"- probably from very near as they were too heavy to throw away a long way...

Sometimes they didnt throw the grenades, sometimes they threw themselves with the grenades at the tank. - Which was not so insane. The throwing was risky, if the thrower was shot during throwing everything was over. Also to get back was still risky in the middle of the battle. But if he hurled himself at the tank holding the grenades - he had always a chance to get at the tank even if he was shot in the last seconds.

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Post by BIGpanzer » 29 Nov 2005 00:14

Exactly.
I didn`t mention the bunches of handgrenades as they were not "official" AT weapon. Very often such grenades were not AT (because the bunch of AT grenades was very heavy), but anti-personal grenades.
Many Soviet soldiers and sailors really heroically blew themselves up with the bunch of grenades under the German tanks.

Some Soviet propaganda posters were painted, according to the real events:
http://usa.ural.ru/ww2/rusposters/h/big/CRW_0154.jpg
http://www.plakaty.ru/i/plakats/medium/681.jpg

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Post by Hans S » 29 Nov 2005 12:19

They got some, not many, bazookas. I searched for more details but did only find this:

Although the russian military was reportedly not very enthusiastic about the lend-lease Bazookas which they had received in little numbers in 1943, they took a liking to the bigger Panzerschreck and the late-war Panzerfaust types.
http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust4.htm

Cheers

Hans

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Post by BIGpanzer » 29 Nov 2005 19:32

Just found some info in my archive:

Soviets received 1100 13.97mm British AT rifles "Boys" mod. 1936 in 1942-1943. As much more powerful native PTRD-41 and PTRS-41 were already produced in large amounts (tens of thousands), "Boys" AT rifles were not popular in Red Army.

Small amount of US "bazookas" were received in August 1943.

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Post by Hans S » 29 Nov 2005 22:29

BIGpanzer wrote:Small amount of US "bazookas" were received in August 1943.
You don't have anything about how many?

Cheers

Hans

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BIGpanzer
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Post by BIGpanzer » 29 Nov 2005 23:07

Hi, Hans S!
I don`t have exact data, but I really tried to find them especially for you :) What I only found that according to Zaloga Soviets received small amount of "bazookas" for testing and received more PIATS (near 1000). So the amount of "bazookas" were less than 1000 :) Even 1000 was a very small amount for Eastern Front combats, so almost nobody of Soviet soldiers could notice them on battlefields.

Trophy Panzercshrecks and Panzerfausts were used under the official army name RPG-1 in Soviet Army during WWII. Some sources report that Soviets even produced the small amount of native copies of German Panzerfaust, but I don`t have additional info.

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Post by Hans S » 29 Nov 2005 23:45

BIGpanzer wrote:Hi, Hans S!
I don`t have exact data, but I really tried to find them especially for you :) What I only found that according to Zaloga Soviets received small amount of "bazookas" for testing and received more PIATS (near 1000). So the amount of "bazookas" were less than 1000 :) Even 1000 was a very small amount for Eastern Front combats, so almost nobody of Soviet soldiers could notice them on battlefields.

Trophy Panzercshrecks and Panzerfausts were used under the official army name RPG-1 in Soviet Army during WWII. Some sources report that Soviets even produced the small amount of native copies of German Panzerfaust, but I don`t have additional info.
Thanks for the effort!

So less than 1000 - somewhere in my vauge memory - without any source - I have a figure of 500 - so they are more or less in line - a small number.

Cheers

Hans

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Post by Dima » 30 Nov 2005 01:06

hi,
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfis ... er3_3.html

that's english version of http://www.soldat.ru. You can c 1000 bazookas were received.

12.7mm PTRR-39 (Rukovishnikov Anti Tank Rifle) was used during defence of Moscow.
12.7mm PTRSh-41 (Sholokhov Anti Tank Rifle) was used during defence of Moscow. Was copy of Mauser PzBuchse 18.

14.5mm PTRB-42 (Blum Anti Tank Rifle) only 61 were produced.

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Post by BIGpanzer » 30 Nov 2005 17:16

Dima wrote:
12.7mm PTRR-39 (Rukovishnikov Anti Tank Rifle) was used during defence of Moscow.
12.7mm PTRSh-41 (Sholokhov Anti Tank Rifle) was used during defence of Moscow. Was copy of Mauser PzBuchse 18.

14.5mm PTRB-42 (Blum Anti Tank Rifle) only 61 were produced.
Hello, Dima!
Thanks for the info, but some are not 100% correct. So some notes.

Rukavishnikov designed several types of experimental AT rifles before WWII, including 12.7mm. But PTR-39 you are talking about had the calibre 14.5mm. Small amounts of PTR-39 were produced in 1939-1940, but the production was stopped because of mistake of Soviet generals: they thought that armor of new German tanks was very thick for penetration by AT rifles. The consequences of that great mistake were horrible - in June 1941 Soviet Army didn`t have AT rifles in sizeable amounts, but PTR-39 could easily destroy Pz.I, Pz.II, LT-35 and LT-38, which were used by Germans mainly. PTR-39s were used indeed during the defense of Moscow in 1941.
In 1942 Rukavishnikov designed very light 12.7mm AT-rifle, but that was experimental.


12.7mm PTRSh-41 (for armor-piercing bullets from SMG DShK) were produced in small amounts in 1941 by Moscow university workshops as temporary weapon. It was the improved copy of German 13.37mm AT rifle "Mauser".

14.5mm AT rifle of Blum construction ( http://infvstanks.newmail.ru/ptrus/blum.JPG ) was developed in the beginning of 1943 (could penetrate the front armor of PzKpfw VI from 100 m distance). It was never produced and remained experimental.
But very powerful 20mm AT rifle RES were produced in Kovrov in small amounts: 28 in 1942 and 43 in 1943.

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Post by Dima » 01 Dec 2005 02:34

hi,

yes,sry was wrong on Blum ATR.

as for PTR-39, 14.5mm cartridge(B-32/40) was accepted in december 1939 and put in production in 1940. So PTR-39 just couldn't be of 14.5mm caliber :wink:. It was 12.7mm PTR-39.

14.5mm PTRR wasn't accepted. It was produced in small serie of 100 samples for military tests in 1940-41.

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Post by PPoS » 01 Dec 2005 16:16

I know that Russians used some "Panfilov" 14.5mm AT rifles from WW1 also.

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