Nazi Plans of World Domination

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nny
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Nazi Plans of World Domination

Post by nny » 13 Dec 2005 06:26

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1941/411027a.html

In Roosevelts Navy Day Address on October 27, 1941 he mentions a couple of things I was wondering if anyone could expound upon because they were both new to me. First :

Your government has in its possession another document made in Germany by Hitler's government. It is a detailed plan, which, for obvious reasons, the Nazis did not wish and do not wish to publicize just yet, but which they are ready to impose-a little later-on a dominated world-if Hitler wins. It is a plan to abolish all existing religions-Protestant, Catholic, Mohammedan, Hindu, Buddhist and Jewish alike. The property of all churches will be seized by the Reich and its puppets. The cross and all other symbols of religion are to be forbidden. The clergy are to be forever silenced under penalty of the concentration camps, where even now so many fearless men are being tortured because they have placed God above Hitler.


In the place of the churches of our civilization, there is to be set up an International Nazi Church-a church which will be served by orators sent out by the Nazi Government. In the place of the Bible, the words of Mein Kampf will be imposed and enforced as Holy Writ. And in place of the cross of Christ will be put two symbols-the swastika and the naked sword.


I have read very briefly about the Reich Church :

In 1936, the Reich Church was created. This did not have the Christian cross as its symbol but the swastika. The Bible was replaced by "Mein Kampf" which was placed on the altar. By it was a sword. Only invited Nazis were allowed to give sermons in a Reich Church.


http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/ch ... ermany.htm

But I didn't know there was a Nazi plan to abolish all world religions, does anyone have or know where I can get access to the information Roosevelt was referring to?

and second:

For example, I have in my possession a secret map made in Germany by Hitler's government-by the planners of the new world order. It is a map of South America and a part of Central America, as Hitler proposes to reorganize it. Today in this area there are fourteen separate countries. The geographical experts of Berlin, however, have ruthlessly obliterated all existing boundary lines; and have divided South America into five vassal states, bringing the whole continent under their domination. And they have also so arranged it that the territory of one of these new puppet states includes the Republic of Panama and our great life line-the Panama Canal.


I have never heard of this, Thomas Childers in his work "History of Hitlers Empire" describes Hitlers vision of a 'new world order', basically in terms of "Superpowers", Germany would have Europe, Japan would have the Pacific, England would have its colonial system and the US would have the Western Hemisphere, so this proclamation comes as a bit of a surprise, does anyone know about the original source of Roosevelts information? Any help is greatly appreciated :)

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Post by David Thompson » 13 Dec 2005 07:20

nny -- You asked:
But I didn't know there was a Nazi plan to abolish all world religions, does anyone have or know where I can get access to the information Roosevelt was referring to?

This formulation isn't quite accurate, but you can find more information on the subject at:
http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/library/donovan/
http://www.camlaw.rutgers.edu/publicati ... rinst1.htm
and in the set "Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression," US Government Printing Office, Washington (DC): 1946 indexed under the exhibits against Martin Bormann, and in "Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944," Farrar, Straus and Young, New York: 1953.

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Post by michael mills » 14 Dec 2005 03:09

nny,

There was definitely no such plan or document, Roosevelt simply made the whole thing up, playing to a religiose American audience.

Certain high-level National Socialists such as Bormann were strongly anti-religious, and there were moves to control the German churches and prevent them from becoming centres of opposition, but there was certainly nothing like a plan to abolish all religions.

Hitler himself stated that National Socialism was not for export, and concept that non-Germans would be forced to use Mein Kampf as a bible is laughable. The aim was to make all of Europe, and perhaps parts of Africa, politically and economically subservient to Germany, but there was certainly no idea of forcing a new religion on it.

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Post by nny » 14 Dec 2005 08:31

Thank you DT, I haven't been able to look over the first source since it requires membership to a number of newspapers AFAICS, and the second source is from a 1945 poorly scanned document which I will try to read soon :)

There was definitely no such plan or document, Roosevelt simply made the whole thing up, playing to a religiose American audience.


Did he make it all up? What about the Nazi plans for South America?

To put things in perspective, what were the plans for the Christian Church in the Soviet Union Pre-Nazi Germany and up to 1941 when Roosevelt gave his speech? It is very difficult to find hard information but from what I have been able to find Christianity under the Soviets was much worse off than under the Nazis pre 1941, why all the concern in Roosevelts speech? Was it pure propoganda? Did any American Presidents post-Bolshevik Russia express concern over the treatment of Christianity in the Soviet Union under Communism? What was his real concern if not religion? Was he truely concerned about a Nazi takeover of South America?

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Post by David Thompson » 14 Dec 2005 08:45

nny -- You said:
Thank you DT, I haven't been able to look over the first source since it requires membership to a number of newspapers AFAICS

With the exception of some of the documents in "Donovan Nuremberg Trials Collection in the News," the links come up fine for me. The third and fourth sources I gave should be available at the nearest university library or medium to larger sized public libraries, or via inter-library loan at the smaller libraries.

The fourth source I cited -- "Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944," Farrar, Straus and Young, New York: 1953 -- has some extended remarks by Hitler on a number of occasions expressing a desire to suppress the various branches of the Christian religion. He mentions other religions in passing, usually with disapproval. Whether he ever imagined that he would be in a position to suppress them all, I cannot say.

The approach within Germany was set forth in Martin Bormann's 1941 decree, which can be seen at:

Bormann Decree on the NSDAP and the German Churches
viewtopic.php?p=546286&highlight=church#546286

For the first time in German history the Fuehrer consciously and completely has the leadership of the people in his own hand. With the party, its components and attached units the Fuehrer has created for himself and thereby the German Reich leadership an instrument which makes him independent of the church. All influences which might impair or damage the leadership of the people exercised by the Fuehrer with help of the NSDAP, must be eliminated. More and more the people must be separated from the churches and their organs, the pastors. Of course the churches must and will, seen from their viewpoint, defend themselves against this loss of power. But never again must an influence on leadership of the people be yielded to the churches. This (influence) must be broken completely and finally.

Only the Reich government and by its direction the party, its components and attached units have a right to leadership of the people. Just as the deleterious influences of astrologers, seers and other fakers are eliminated and suppressed by the state, so must the possibility of church influence also be totally removed. Not until this has happened, does the state leadership have influence on the individual citizens. Not until then are people and Reich secure in their existence for all the future.

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Post by nny » 14 Dec 2005 09:10

David Thompson wrote:nny -- You said:
Thank you DT, I haven't been able to look over the first source since it requires membership to a number of newspapers AFAICS

The links come up fine for me. The third and fourth sources I gave should be available at the nearest university library or medium to larger sized public libraries, or via inter-library loan at the smaller libraries.


Interesting, must be something defective with my PDF program, I keep getting things such as :

A Psychological Profile of Adolf Hitler!


July 6, 1945 - "The Nazi Master Plan: The Persecution of the Christian Churches"


Which shows up in VERY poor quality on my screen :/

I'm sorry I don't have the time to goto the nearest university library, perhaps you can post the documents you are referring to, or simply source them in the hopes that another user will possibly post them? :)

I can only offer such postings as :

"Hitler's Germany amalgamated state with church. Soldiers of the vermacht wore belt buckles inscribed with the following: "Gott mit uns" (God is with us). His troops were often sprinkled with holy water by the priests. It was a real Christian country whose citizens were indoctrinated by both state and church and blindly followed all authority figures, political and ecclesiastical.


and ...

For anyone wanting even more proof, Mein Kampf is chock full of the Fuhrer's musings on God. ("I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord," Hitler wrote).


http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/12/far04041.html

Of course, I understand the authors wish to associate Bush with Hitler, which is probably not as attractive as associating Bush with lets say, Stalin, but that doesn't so much nullify what their points are. Perhaps if they were more aware of the Nazi plans for world religion they would find this line of attack more fruitful?

Even if Bormann, as you suggest in your original post, was anti-relgious, was he influential on Nazi thinking? Were the Nazis more Anti-Christian in their actions since they came to power than the Bolsheviks since they came to power?

I understand Rosenberg wrote a book "The Myth of the 20th Century", in which he denounced Christianity (and Judaism), but that doesn't help explain Nazi actions at all. Thinking about killing someone and actually killing them are lightyears apart. Was there an actual plan to 'destory world religions and replace them with the "Reich Church"' or not? I'm also interested in whether Roosevelt was actually concerned with the Nazi plans to abolish world religion, where he got the transcripts of this plan, if there was such a plan, and how he reconciled it with the Bolshevik treatment of the Christian Church.

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Post by David Thompson » 14 Dec 2005 10:34

nny -- You asked:
I'm sorry I don't have the time to goto the nearest university library, perhaps you can post the documents you are referring to, or simply source them in the hopes that another user will possibly post them?

I have sourced them already. If you want to read the descriptive index to the IMT exhibits on the suppression of the Christian churches, you can find it at Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, vol. I, pp. 276-277 and 287-296. This list will tell you where you can find each of the exhibits in the 8-volume set. The descriptive index is preceeded by the prosecution's description of the Nazi program to suppress the churches, beginning at p. 263.

As for your request to post the documents, please understand that you are the one who is interested in the issue, and that it takes considerably less time for you to go to the library and read the documents for yourself than it does for me to collect, scan, proof-read and post them (There are 80 + separate documents listed in the IMT descriptive index). I don't know how much free time you may have, but my own time is limited and I prefer to spend it reading about subjects in which I have a greater interest.

On the question of comparing war crimes and other criminal aspects of the Nazi regime and that of the USSR, the forum management has found these types of threads to generally be unproductive exchanges of heated opinion and agitprop. This has been true of most of the "who was worse" threads, no matter what countries were being compared. Since so many of these threads have been acrimonious and barren, they're generally locked up early.

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Post by nny » 14 Dec 2005 18:41

Okay DT, thanks for the warning :)

As for your request to post the documents, please understand that you are the one who is interested in the issue, and that it takes considerably less time for you to go to the library and read the documents for yourself than it does for me to collect, scan, proof-read and post them


This being a research forum, I was hoping to side-step the going to the library, searching and reading part, as I'm sure many of the users who visit this forum hope. I didn't mean to offend, nor was I suggesting you go and scan them for me, I was hoping, since these two documents Roosevelt spoke of would be IMO centerpieces of any 'Conspiracy and Aggression Argument', or 'Crimes Against the Church' argument and thus probably quite ubiquitous, that another forum member may have been able to find them or may be in possession of them without having to take the time to look for documents that possibly don't even exist.

Here is what Goebbels had to say on the issue, published in Das Reich, his propoganda newspaper, I came by it purely by chance today :

This time he made concrete accusations against the policies of the Reich, which he attempted to prove though compromising documents he allegedly possessed.

Mr. Roosevelt claimed that he had proof in his hands that the Axis powers were planning to reorganize South and Central America. They were planning to transform the existing fourteen countries into five states that would be under their control. His proof was a secret map allegedly produced by the Reich government. The American government also claims to possess another Reich document. According to it, the Reich government plans to abolish the existing religions of the world once it has won the war — Catholicism, Protestantism, Mohammedanism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism. They are to be replaced by an international National Socialist church, the cross by the swastika, and God by the Führer. That is what he claims.

It is clear to us that Mr. Roosevelt needed this grand swindle to whip up American public opinion. He needed the heaviest possible ammunition, since the American people are at the moment more intelligent than their government and want absolutely nothing to do with the war in Europe. We really are not all that interested in Mr. Roosevelt's opinion of the intelligence of his people nor in what he thinks them capable of believing, and normally would see no need to reply to his bald-faced and outrageous lies which so clearly bear the signs of fabrication. In this case, however, it is a matter of a political falsification which seems to us to have a clear and ominous purpose, and gave us such an easy chance to show up the liars to the entire world that we could hardly let the opportunity pass. We had to overcome our moral scruples, however, to confront the liar and ask him where he got these alleged documents from, where they can be found, and if he was ready to show them to the public.

Things went as we expected. Mr. Roosevelt, the president of a nation of 130 million, dodged our questions. He claimed the authenticity of the documents was unassailable; he had them. They could not be published, however, since they were secret and publishing them would reveal the source. And the map in question that carved up Central and South America had markings in pencil which could compromise the source that provided them. He, Roosevelt, did not want to cause any difficulties for the poor chap who passed them along.


As one can imagine, Roosevelt's answer was not very convincing proof of his hair-raising allegations either at home or abroad. Our tough questions bore fruit. We used the press and radio to propose to the American president that he might publish the incriminating map of Central and South America, perhaps either erasing the ominous pencil markings or covering them up with paper, and to at least publish the text of our notorious plan to begin a campaign against all the world's religions once the war was over, from Jehovah to Confucius to Christ.


We looked further, and since we could learn nothing more given the stubborn silence of the accuser, we attempted to lure him into a response by massive attacks. Alas, the normally talkative gentleman seemed to have forgotten how to speak. Even the attempts of the American press to learn something more as he visited one of the famous skyscrapers were in vain.

The Reich government published two formal denials on 1 November, which boxed Roosevelt's ears so strongly that he had to chose between revealing his documents or proving himself a forger and liar to the entire world. He chose the latter. The U.S. press gave headline treatment to the German denials and asked for a response. Mr. Roosevelt accepted the blows, rubbed his checks and said nothing. We made every conceivable suggestion to ease the publication of the documents, but the U.S. president preferred to be thought a liar and forger than to prove his absurd accusations.


http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb2.htm

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Post by michael mills » 15 Dec 2005 05:51

Roosevelt's claim of a German plan to "abolish" all religions and replace them with a National Socialist religion is quite clearly bogus, and is not supported by pronouncements by Martin Bormann, the most anti-religious of the National Socialist leaders.

The Bormann pronouncement posted by the moderator is clearly the statement of an aim to reduce the political influence of the churches over the German population. It is not a statement of an aim to "abolish" any religion, ie to prevent individuals from adhering to or practising a particular religion. It was the statement of a policy of combatting the political activity of religiously-based organisations, not of combatting religious beliefs themselves.

As part of the policy of combatting the political influence of the churches, members of the National Socialist Party and of other National socialist organisations, eg the SS, were encouraged to officially resign from the churches of which they were members, and to adopt the status of "gottgläubig", ie believers in God not affiliated with any church.

Since in Germany members of a church pay taxes to that church (the taxes are collected by the State), a large number of resignations would weaken the churches financially and thus as a source of opposition to the Government.

However, there was no compulsion to resign from church membership. Many members of the Party remained members of churches, even members of the SS could retain church membership without penalty.

There were a few anti-Christian enthusiasts who tried to revive the native German wotanist religion, but Hitler personally had nothing but scorn for them, as is shown in his recorded conversations.

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Post by nny » 20 Dec 2005 09:09

Am I correct to assume that these two documents, first the Nazi plans at dividing and reorganizing South America and second abolishing all world reglions were fabricated by FDR and his regime?

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Post by David Thompson » 20 Dec 2005 17:15

nny -- You asked:
Am I correct to assume that these two documents, first the Nazi plans at dividing and reorganizing South America and second abolishing all world reglions were fabricated by FDR and his regime?

As a statement of verifiable fact, I think it would be more accurate to say that the documents FDR referred to haven't been identified as yet in this section of the forum.

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Post by Long Range » 23 Dec 2005 05:40

It seems that Hitler didn't have a hatred for Catholocism and traditional Lutheranism, as they played a big role in German history....but he saw other less organized Christians as being worse.

What was the Nazi take on Thomas Muentzer? His radical views actually predated the way Christianity is now. He was very philanthropic and a critic of overreaching Ecclesiastical governments, which made him a nice propaganda tool for revolutionaries and the DDR. With that, I would assume that Hitler hated him and stuck with Luther.

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Post by nny » 23 Dec 2005 09:30

Long Range wrote:It seems that Hitler didn't have a hatred for Catholocism and traditional Lutheranism, as they played a big role in German history....but he saw other less organized Christians as being worse.

What was the Nazi take on Thomas Muentzer? His radical views actually predated the way Christianity is now. He was very philanthropic and a critic of overreaching Ecclesiastical governments, which made him a nice propaganda tool for revolutionaries and the DDR. With that, I would assume that Hitler hated him and stuck with Luther.


Thanks for the interesting thought, from Wikipedia :

A widespread belief exists that Muentzer encouraged the peasants to revolt against the wealthy landowners based on his interpretations of apocalyptic literature, especially the struggle of good against evil as found in the Book of Revelation. Applying the victory of Revelation to his own situation, he led a group of singing peasants to their slaughter. Muentzer's struggle of "good against evil" later made him a symbolic hero for the East German state (German Democratic Republic, GDR) in the 20th century, appearing from 1975 on their 5 mark banknote. It may seem odd for the atheist DDR state to have a theologian as a hero, but it may have come about in part, according to Torkel Brekke, because Muentzer's movement and the peasants' revolt formed an important topic in Friedrich Engels' book The Peasant War in Germany, a classic defense of historical materialism. Engels describes Muentzer as a revolutionary leader who chose to use biblical language—the only language the peasants would understand. Opponents of this idea argue Thomas Muentzer was a theologian, and based his ideas around biblical themes concerning God's true servants and the battle against evil, acted as a prophet, and had little interest in revolution or in class struggle.


I've never read anything concerning Nazi views on Muentzer, but I will assume that if Engels ideolized him, that the Nazis would have despised him, as it is I'm assuming the Nazis didn't spend much propoganda time on him, as I'm sure the Bolsheviks didn't either (WWII oriented).

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Post by spirit.of.sacrifice » 23 Dec 2005 23:18

Hitler was against atheists for he claimed them to be prone to anarchist thought patterns. Therefore plans for abolishing all world religions would seem out of the question.

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