The Sino-Japanese War(Campaigns in detail)

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manfredzhang
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Re: The Sino-Japanese War(Campaigns in detail)

Post by manfredzhang » 24 May 2021 21:55

tigre wrote:
07 Aug 2016 21:22


According to this Japanese source ...... as against 85,000 Japanese killed.



What Japanese sources said 85K killed?

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tigre
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Re: The Sino-Japanese War(Campaigns in detail)

Post by tigre » 08 Jul 2021 21:58

Hello manfredzhang :D; sorry for this delay, but I'm away of home; regarding your question see below..........
[Der Konflikt in Ostasien.] Major General T. von Lerch. Review of the Sino-Japanese War from 15 June to 15 September 1940.

On 7 July 1940 the Press Section of the Imperial Japanese GHQ released a review of the Japanese successes in China during the three-year period of hostilities.
Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

Aryili
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Re: The Sino-Japanese War(Campaigns in detail)

Post by Aryili » 02 Sep 2021 18:25

tigre wrote:
07 Aug 2016 21:22
Hello to all :D; a little more...........................................

THE CONFLICT IN EAST ASIA.

[Der Konflikt in Ostasien.] Major General T. von Lerch. Review of the Sino-Japanese War from 15 June to 15 September 1940.

On 7 July 1940 the Press Section of the Imperial Japanese GHQ released a review of the Japanese successes in China during the three-year period of hostilities. The length of the battle front in China is 2,850 miles, and the area of Chinese territory under Japanese occupation totals 1,000,000 square miles, which is 2.4 times the size of Japan proper.

The Japanese war booty consists of:

1,398 heavy and field guns
1, 859 mine throwers
359 quick firing and antiaircraft guns
4,156 heavy machine guns
12,352 light machine guns
357,700 rifles
898 armored vehicles
2,331 trucks
30 warships

According to this Japanese source the Chinese left 1,587,000 killed on the battlefields; and the total of Chinese casualties, all included, exceeds 3,000,000, as against 85,000 Japanese killed.

Source: Catalog of Selected Periodical Articles. RML. Vol. XXI. Nº 80. March 1941.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
The causalties published by the Press Section of the Imperial Japanese GHQ on July 7, 1940 are likely incorrect.

The JACAR has a primary source document containing a table by Major General Takashima covering Japanese casualties from July 7, 1937 to July 31, 1939.
  • North China: 1,056 CO KIA, 24,676 NCM KIA, 2,354 CO WIA and 67,327 NCM WIA
  • Central China: 1,392 CO KIA, 35,479 NCM KIA, 2,908 CO WIA and 84,888 NCM WIA
  • South China: 47 CO KIA, 717 NCM KIA, 84 CO WIA and 2,929 NCM WIA
CO denotes Commissioned Officer and NCM denotes Non-Commisioned Member.
KIA denotes Killed In Action and WIA denotes Wounded in Action.

This gives a total of 2,495 CO KIA, 60,872 NCM KIA, 5346 CO WIA and 155,144 NCM WIA. This gives a total of 63,367 KIA. A note dated September 7, 1939 below the table states that there are 91,130 NCM KIA. This is a difference of 30,258 deaths. I will also note that the table does not include data on those that died from wounds, diseases or other causes.

Citation:
「JACAR(Japan Center for Asian Historical Records)Ref.C11110875100、Style of death in battle injury from July 7, 1937 to July 31, 1939 about the China incident(National Institute for Defense Studies of the Ministry of Defence)」

The JACAR also has a primary source document containing a patient data from October 1939 to November 1940.
  • 1939 October: 4,958 WIA, 940 KIA and DfW, 1,938 SfD, 284 DfD, 436 DfOC
  • 1939 November: 2,795 WIA, 712 KIA and DfW, 1,678 SfD, 238 DfD, 358 DfOC
  • 1939 December: 18,629 WIA, 4,046 KIA and DfW, 1,100 SfD, 160 DfD, 331 DfOC
  • 1940 January: 10,741 WIA, 2,510 KIA and DfW, 997 SfD, 119 DfD, 240 DfOC
  • 1940 February: 5,043 WIA, 826 KIA and DfW, 959 SfD, 109 DfD, 214 DfOC
  • 1940 March: 3,595 WIA, 565 KIA and DfW, 936 SfD, 121 DfD, 200 DfOC
  • 1940 April: 8,057 WIA, 1,370 KIA and DfW, 1,059 SfD, 128 DfD, 200 DfOC
  • 1940 May: 23,538 WIA, 2,729 KIA and DfW, 1,651 SfD, 132 DfD, 264 DfOC
  • 1940 June: 13,416 WIA, 2,512 KIA and DfW, 2,599 SfD, 240 DfD, 196 DfOC
  • 1940 July: 4,484 WIA, 1,059 KIA and DfW, 3,433 SfD, 399 DfD, 472 DfOC
  • 1940 August: 2,580 WIA, 661 KIA and DfW, 3,147 SfD, 387 DfD, 455 DfOC
  • 1940 September: 3,576 WIA, 988 KIA and DfW, 3,156 SfD, 370 DfD, 372 DfOC
  • 1940 October: 4,770 WIA, 1,023 KIA and DfW, 3,455 SfD, 491 DfD, 281 DfOC
  • 1940 November: 3,591 WIA, 717 KIA and DfW, 3,032 SfD, 475 DfD, 258 DfOC
WIA denotes Wounded in Action.
KIA denotes Killed in Action.
DfW denotes Died from Wounds.
SfD denotes Sick from Disease.
DfD denotes Died from Disease.
DfOC denotes Died from Other Causes.

From October 1939 to July 1940 the IJA suffered 95,256 WIA, 17,269 KIA and DfW, 16,351 SfD, 1,930 DfD and 2,911 DfOC. This gives a total death count of 22,110. Note that disease refers to serious illnesses such as tuberculosis, typhus, dysentry, pneumonia, etc.

Citation:
「JACAR(Japan Center for Asian Historical Records)Ref.C11110494500、1. Corps in China patient table(National Institute for Defense Studies of the Ministry of Defence)」

I also have a source for IJA casualties in North China from September 1939 to April 1941. It gives ~1000 IJA deaths in North China for September 1939.

Citation:
「JACAR(Japan Center for Asian Historical Records)Ref.C11110934800、(8) North China Area Army sanitation general condition(National Institute for Defense Studies of the Ministry of Defence)」

Combining the sources gives a minimum death count of 86,477-116,735. This easily exceeds the 85,000 figure provided by the Press Section of the Imperial Japanese GHQ. Furthermore we are missing IJA casualty data for August-September 1939. This roughly matches the timeline for the 1st Battle of Changsha from 17 September 1939 to 6 October 1939. Richard B. Frank in his book Tower of Skulls: A History of the Asia-Pacific War, Volume I states that there is a disagreement on casualties between the IJA source and foreign military observers in China. The IJA claims 850 KIA and 2,700 WIA, but foreign military observers claim 30,000 IJA casualties.

The official KMT KIA count from 1937-1945 is roughly 1.3 million-1.45 million. This is well below the claim of 1,587,000 KIA from 1937-1940. It should be noted that the KMT only produced and imported 600,000-700,000 rifles from 1937-1940. The KMT would have run out of rifles before men if they took 1,587,000 KIA! The IJA claimed 357,700 rifles were captured which is more than 1.2 million less than the number of KIA claimed and 2.6 million less than the number of casualties claimed.

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