Would a Schutzpolizei EM Records Be In NARA's SS Records?

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stcamp
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Would a Schutzpolizei EM Records Be In NARA's SS Records?

Post by stcamp » 30 Jan 2006 18:46

Hello,

Did the Schutzpolizei personnel records get transferred to the SS after 1943? I am trying to find records on a Schutzpolizei enlisted man who has a somewhat common name. NARA has 25+ records listing that name but would it be him?

Thanks,

Steve

Peter
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Post by Peter » 30 Jan 2006 19:17

In my experience there are no records of EM's in NARA.

I believe that SS and Polizei EM's records are all still in Germany. I used to get copies from the BDC of those I needed.

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stcamp
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Post by stcamp » 31 Jan 2006 02:22

Hello,


SS Enlisted Men Personnel Files. Microfilm Publication A3343, Series SM. 1,738 rolls.


I found this on the NARA site.


Steve

Peter
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Post by Peter » 31 Jan 2006 11:09

Surely that can only be a sample on 1700 reels ?

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stcamp
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Post by stcamp » 31 Jan 2006 14:44

Hello Iltis,

I do not know enough to answer your question. It seems like a lot of rolls to me. If they do have EM SS records would a Polizei EM be on them?

Regards,

Steve

Peter
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Post by Peter » 31 Jan 2006 15:17

How many rolls does it show for the SS Officers ?

I know when I ordered copies of EM's papers from the BDC in the 70's and 80's I was able to get Orpo and Schupo EM's so if they have filmed them I guess that they are within the lot, I would have expected more rolls of film though,

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Post by Peter » 31 Jan 2006 15:34

The more I think about it 1700 reels cant be enough for the Waffen SS on its own

370,000 Reich German SS EM's,
135,000 Western European SS volunteers,
180,000 Volksdeutsche SS volunteers,
195,000 Eastern European (Latvian, Estonian, Lithuanian, Ukrainian, etc)

then add on the Allg-SS, SD, Sipo, Schupo, Orpo, etc.

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logibear64
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SS EM records

Post by logibear64 » 02 Feb 2006 00:27

The BDC files do contain a significant number of SS enlisted men. However, many SS members either do not have a file or their file was lost during the fire which damaged SS personnel office as a result of allied bombing. I have a number of SS EM and officers that I have researched for myself and others. I think it is very unlikely that the man in question has a file but not impossible. The earlier his enlistment in the ss/police the better. Usually around 1942 or earlier. If he joined the Waffen-SS or was drafted I'd say there is a 90% chance the man does NOT have a file.
There are other sources of information for example the RuSHA files. This is the orgainzation which conducted racial heritage checks for SS recruits.
Also when I mention "file" it is a bit misleading that in some cases the man's folder pobably contains nothing more than a 3x5 piece of paper with his payroll voucher. Others contain tons of information.
Ultimately, the odds are against you unless the person in question is a pre-war enlistee. If you wish PM me the man's name, date of birth, place of birth and unit and I'll see if he has a file.

Phil

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Post by Peter » 02 Feb 2006 08:03

Yes I had good results with BDC files but Steve is trying to find if thet are microfilmed at NARA.

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logibear64
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Post by logibear64 » 02 Feb 2006 13:38

Yes they are indeed microfilmed.

german_MD
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Re: SS EM records

Post by german_MD » 05 Mar 2017 11:39

logibear64 wrote:The BDC files do contain a significant number of SS enlisted men. However, many SS members either do not have a file or their file was lost during the fire which damaged SS personnel office as a result of allied bombing. I have a number of SS EM and officers that I have researched for myself and others. I think it is very unlikely that the man in question has a file but not impossible. The earlier his enlistment in the ss/police the better. Usually around 1942 or earlier. If he joined the Waffen-SS or was drafted I'd say there is a 90% chance the man does NOT have a file.
There are other sources of information for example the RuSHA files. This is the orgainzation which conducted racial heritage checks for SS recruits.
Also when I mention "file" it is a bit misleading that in some cases the man's folder pobably contains nothing more than a 3x5 piece of paper with his payroll voucher. Others contain tons of information.
Ultimately, the odds are against you unless the person in question is a pre-war enlistee. If you wish PM me the man's name, date of birth, place of birth and unit and I'll see if he has a file.

Phil
Hello Phil,
I have seen a post from 2006. Could you check two of me?

Vieth, Joachim born 23 April 1928 in Magdeburg (Magdeburg-Südost).
Was used in the Prague area last news of April 1945.
Unit: SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Ersatz und Ausbildungs Battaillon 30

Brothers:
Vieth, Erhardt born 1929 in Magdeburg (Magdeburg-Südost)

Both were in young years probably already moved into the SS. Unfortunately, no info to the remaining.
For a reply or tips for the search I would be very grateful.

greetings
Eike
Last edited by german_MD on 05 Mar 2017 20:04, edited 2 times in total.

smetanin albert
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Re: Would a Schutzpolizei EM Records Be In NARA's SS Records?

Post by smetanin albert » 05 Mar 2017 15:42

There is a great base for the citizens of Baden:
https://www2.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/o ... tand=18134

steve248
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Re: Would a Schutzpolizei EM Records Be In NARA's SS Records?

Post by steve248 » 07 Mar 2017 17:53

I am not entirely convinced that Schupo NCOs are available to any extent at US NARA (or BArchb) in A3343 series.
In my experience of looking at A3343 series EM, the Schupo men included are because they had joined the SS.
If they had not joined the SS they do not have such a record in this series.
Looking at NARA's listing of BDC material (below) they do not mention Schupo records
https://www.archives.gov/research/captu ... enter.html

So where might such records be found? Could be the Orpo archive in Stadt Münster, but I have not been there.

steve248
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Re: Would a Schutzpolizei EM Records Be In NARA's SS Records?

Post by steve248 » 07 Mar 2017 17:57

Forgot to mention the A3343 series RS, the marriage approvals.
Again unless they were SS members, Schupo men were not obliged to seek RuSHA approval.

BArchB by the way is Bundesarchiv Berlin-Lichterfelde

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Re: Would a Schutzpolizei EM Records Be In NARA's SS Records?

Post by Peter » 07 Mar 2017 18:05

I obtained copies of partial records of several EM such as Gend. Bez. Oberwachtmeister Josef Hirtreiter from the BDC in Berlin in the 1980's and I think from my notes that I had several other success with other Polizei records as well.

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