Italian borders in a victorious ww2

Discussions on all aspects of Italy under Fascism from the March on Rome to the end of the war.
User avatar
JohnnieCash
Member
Posts: 163
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 23:19
Location: Southern Sweden

Italian borders in a victorious ww2

Post by JohnnieCash » 07 Apr 2006 15:49

Dont either know if Italy counts as a minor nor if this anyway is the place to post, but please redirect if not so.

Was only wondering what claims Italy would have after the Tri-partie act was signed determining the mediterranian to be Italys sphere of influence? Was it really meant Italy would annex all mediterranian land and create a new roman empire? Or, more reasonable, which countries/provinces/areas where to be under italian rule, while which where to become independent puppets/untouched?
Where any such plans writen up or the Italians never got so far to set up their claims?

Regards
Johnnie

User avatar
Lupo Solitario
Member
Posts: 1123
Joined: 21 Mar 2002 18:39
Location: Italy, country of sun, wine and morons

Post by Lupo Solitario » 12 Apr 2006 13:34

try to resume:

1) annexion of Corsica and Nice to italian mainland
2) demolition of Yugoslavia to break down in smaller states. Annexion of practically entire east adriatic coast. Forming a Montenegro state directly connected to italian crown
3) reckoning an italian influence sphere on Balkans
4) annexion in some way of ionian islands and northern Epirus
5) annexion of Tunisia to Italian North Africa
6) taking place of British in Egypt, Arabia and Middle East
7) some border modification in East Africa
8) a base on Atlantic Ocean somewhere in west africa
9) Gibraltar and part of Marocco to Spain

User avatar
Davide Pastore
Member
Posts: 2768
Joined: 26 Nov 2005 22:05
Location: Germagnano, Italy

Post by Davide Pastore » 12 Apr 2006 16:47

I suggest Savoy too. Royal people would have been very happy, much more than after any amount of colonies gained.

And of course, Malta.

Davide

Giovanni Acuto
Member
Posts: 68
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 06:01
Location: Sible Hedingham, Essex

Post by Giovanni Acuto » 13 Apr 2006 06:43

Are we to assume a total axis victory here? Unconditional surrender by the Allies? And also to assume that the Germans would support such over-reaching claims, although they did not do so even during the war? Because otherwise ....

Now, what Italy could reasonably have gained from a well thought out policy progressing from non-belligerence (1939-1942), through neutrality (1942-44), to alliance with the Allies (1944-end):

British Somaliland and Djibouti (no great material benefit here, but it rounds off AOI nicely)

Dalmatia incorporated in Italy (per the Treaty of London, except "this time for real")

King of Italy becomes Prince of Slovenia (vide Albania)

Montenegro regains independence (bound to Italy by family ties)


Possible but unlikely:

Cyprus; Tunisia; Lebanon


and of course Italy would have kept AOI, Rhodes, Libya ($$$) ....

A "bulwark against communism", that's what Italy could have become. Like Franco's Spain, except rich.

Potsdamerplatz
Member
Posts: 2688
Joined: 04 Nov 2005 05:06
Location: Scotland

Post by Potsdamerplatz » 13 Apr 2006 22:13

demolition of Yugoslavia to break down in smaller states. Annexion of practically entire east adriatic coast. Forming a Montenegro state directly connected to italian crown
I think Germany would have kept the puppet state Croatia though. What does everyone else think about this?

Best regards,

David

User avatar
Allen Milcic
Member
Posts: 2903
Joined: 09 Sep 2003 20:29
Location: Canada

Post by Allen Milcic » 13 Apr 2006 22:20

Potsdamerplatz wrote:
demolition of Yugoslavia to break down in smaller states. Annexion of practically entire east adriatic coast. Forming a Montenegro state directly connected to italian crown
I think Germany would have kept the puppet state Croatia though. What does everyone else think about this?

Best regards,

David
David:

Until the surrender of Italy in 1943, there was a demarcation line between Germany and Italy, or "spheres of influence", within the NDH.

Allen/

User avatar
Lupo Solitario
Member
Posts: 1123
Joined: 21 Mar 2002 18:39
Location: Italy, country of sun, wine and morons

Post by Lupo Solitario » 14 Apr 2006 08:50

Potsdamerplatz wrote:
demolition of Yugoslavia to break down in smaller states. Annexion of practically entire east adriatic coast. Forming a Montenegro state directly connected to italian crown
I think Germany would have kept the puppet state Croatia though. What does everyone else think about this?

Best regards,

David
as I told the project was to break down Yugoslavia in MANY smaller states, including Croatia, Serbia, etc...I named Montenegro cause it was the only one to be taken directly into italian (as a courtesy, avoid the term "New roman", it's only propaganda and it's really ridiculous) empire.

For the rest there's the eternal trouble of italo-german struggle for control of Balkans, one of the most unknown factors acting in WWII, of which the control on Croatia was part. Taking germans as much distant as possible from adriatic sea was a primary italian strategical target.

Return to “Italy under Fascism 1922-1945”