Soft-skin vehicles in service with the Hungarian Army 30/45

[DenesBernad]

I am looking for photos of several soft-skin vehicles, used by the Hungarian Army between 1930-1945:

Cars:
*WM H-2 30 M
*FIAT 2F 29 M
FIAT 508M Ballila ? M
*FIAT 512 31 M
*FIAT 520 F4 33 M
*FIAT 525N 32 M
*Krupp L2 H.43 35 M
*Krupp L2 H.143 37 M
Krupp Protze Command (?)? M
*Ford V-8 (60 HP) 39 M
*Ford V-8 (90 HP) 40 M
Mercedes-Benz G-5 38 M
*Škoda P1100 Popular/Colonial 42 M
*VW Typ 82 Kübelwagen 45? M

Trucks:
*FIAT 4T 30 M
*FIAT XV 33 M
*FIAT 508 33 M (2+1 seats)
*FIAT 508C 1100 38 M (4 seats)
*Rába V 27 M
*Rába AFa ? M
*Rába AFe ? M
*MAVAG-Mercedes LO 2000 36 M
*MAVAG-Mercedes LO 2500 38 M
Mercedes-Benz L3000 A/S 44 M
Mercedes-Benz L4500 A/S 44 M
*Klöckner-Deutz 330A/S 41 M
*ZIS-5 (ex-Soviet, captured) ? M
*GAZ-AA (ex-Soviet, captured) ? M
FIAT 6M Autocarretta 32 M
FIAT/Spa Dovunque 35 M
FIAT/Spa 38-R 38 M
*Ford BB 39 M
*Ford Marmon V-8 40 M
*Opel-Blitz (2.5t) Ambulance
Phänomen Granit ? M
*Škoda 256 Ambulance 43 M
*Škoda 356B (?) [Wrong type?]

Generally, any photos of vehicles in Hungarian service, that can be published, would be welcome.
I need them for a book project I am currently working on.

Corrections/additions to the above list would also be welcome.

Thanks,

Dénes

P.S. I updated the list with a few minor corrcetions and additions.

[Leo Niehorster]

Put me at the very top of your list when the book is ready as the first buyer!!

Unfortunately, I never collected photographs while I was doing my research.
Good luck with this project.

Cheers
Leo

[DenesBernad]

I will certainly do, Leo. I knew you'd be interested in it... :o)

Could you perhaps add any corrections/additions to the above list (several vehicle types I already have photos for omitted)?

Dénes

[Bill Murray]

Hi Denes:
Nice to hear from you again.

I too will be amongst the first in line for your book and will try to help where I can.
Do I take it the designation M33, M44 etc. is to mean year of production??

I am off this weekend for the first time in a month so will do some digging.
Bill

[DenesBernad]

Certainly, Bill. :o)

The xx M actualy means the year a particular vehicle (and any other equipment) was impressed into Hungarian Army service.

I am looking forward for your reply to my message.

Dénes

[Bill Murray]

Thanks Denes:
I am dyslexic today and meant to type 33 M etc.

Would I imagine you have exhausted Google for photos already to save me time??
Bill

[DenesBernad]

Although I did use a bit Google to find mainly info on certain vehicle types, I would not like to use anything that's on the net, because of quality and potential copyright issues. Therefore I'd prefer photos from private collections that can be printed in the book hassle free.

Dénes

[Leo Niehorster]

cars bought by the armed forces, with the year of order indicated.   

Code: Select all

 FIAT 508                    1933 small car
 FIAT 508C                   1938 small car
 Skoda P1100 Colonial        1942 small car
 FIAT 2F                     1929 large car
 FIAT 512                    1931 large car
 FIAT 520 F4                 1933 medium car
 Ford V-8 (60HP)             1939 medium car
 Horch 901                   1942 medium car cc
 Mercedes-Benz G-5           1940 medium car cc
 FIAT 525N                   1932 large car cc
 Ford V-8 (90HP)             1940 large car
 Krupp L2H143                1938 large car cc
 Krupp L2H43                 1935 large car cc
 Weiss Manfréd H-2           1930 large car cc

trucks bought by the armed forces, with the year of order indicated.   

Code: Select all

 Botond I                    1938 1.5-ton truck cc
 Botond II                   1941 1.5-ton truck cc
 FIAT Spa 38R                1938 1.5-ton truck
 FIAT XV                     1928 1.5-ton truck
 Krupp L2H143                1938 1.5-ton truck
 MÁVAG-Mercedes LO.2000      1936 2-ton truck
 MÁVAG-Mercedes LO.2500      1938 2.5-ton truck
 Rába AFa                    1933 1.75-ton truck
 Rába AFe                    1931 1.5-ton truck
 Rába AFh                    1935 1.75-ton truck
 Rába AFi                    1936 1.5-ton truck
 Steyer 1500A                1943 1.5-ton truck cc
 FIAT 4.Ts                   1930 3-ton truck
 Ford BB                     1939 2.5-ton truck
 Ford V.3000 Marta           1943 3-ton van
 Ford V-8 (Köln)             1938 3-ton truck
 Ford V-8 (USA)              1938 3-ton truck
 Ford-Marmon V-8             1940 3-ton truck cc
 Klöckner 330A               1942 3-ton truck cc
 Klöckner 330S               1942 3-ton truck
 Opel-Blitz                  1943 3-ton van
 Rába Maros K-3              1943 3-ton van
 Rába V                      1927 3-ton truck
 Rába-Krupp L3.5H63          1932 3-ton truck cc
 Rába-Krupp L3.6H            1931 3-ton truck
 Skoda 356B                  1943 3-ton van
 Skoda ambulance             1943 3-ton van

tractors bought by the armed forces, with the year of order indicated.  

Code: Select all

 HSCS (K-40)                 1936 wheeled tractor
 HSCS (K-50)                 1941 wheeled tractor
 FIAT-Pavesi P4-100          1925 medium wheeled tractor
 Weiss Manfréd-Pavesi P4-100 1932 medium wheeled tractor
 Breda 32                    1936 heavy wheeled tractor
 Hansa-Lloyd                 1937 halftrack

Rába (Magyar Waggon- és Gépgyárban) produced the following vehicles 

Code: Select all

 Rába V tgk.        3 - 5 ton truck
 Rába L. tgk.       3-ton
 Rába-Krupp L3H     3-ton
 Rába-Krupp L3N     3-ton
 Rába-Krupp L3,5N   3-ton
 Rába-Krupp L5N     5-ton
 Rába-Krupp L3,6H   3-ton
 Rába AFk           1-ton
 Rába-Super         2.5-ton
 Rába-Special       3.5-ton
 Maros KV-III       3-ton
 Bakony 41.M        3-ton
 Botond A 38.M      1.5-ton
 Botond B 38./42.M  1.5-ton

Source:
Bronhardt Attila, Sárhidai Gyula, Winkler László
"A Magyar Királyi Honvédség fegyverzete"
Zrínya Kiado, Budapest, 1992.
ISBN 963-327-182-7

Cheers
Leo

[DenesBernad]

Thanks, Leo, for the list. The mentioned Hungarian book was the main reference when I compiled my 'master' list of vehicles (I personally know all three authors). However, that book is incomplete, quite a few types used by the Hungarians - documented by primary information or photos - are missing. For example, the Kübelwagen and Schwimmwagen, or the Steyr 55 car - just to name a couple. Other types are identified incorrectly, like the Škoda 356B. That's why I am anxious to learn what are the German, Italian and other sources say (not to mention the photos of each vehicle type that I am really after).

Dénes

[DenesBernad]

Here's a photo, scanned from a Hungarian magazine, 'Modell es makett', of a line of captured ex-Soviet trucks, seen in 1944:



Can anyone identify the exact types?

Dénes

[DenesBernad]

Here's another photo, from my collection, showing a row of trucks in Hungarian service.
Can anyone identify these vehicles? Photo taken in early 1944.


Thanks,

Dénes

[Bill Murray]

Hallo Denes:

On your post of 14/04 , I am not sure of the first vehicle but suspect it may be Italian. The following three are in my opinion, Gaz AA vehicles.

On your post of 17/04, I make it a Mercedes 170K, a Ford of uncertain origin, another Mercedes truck of unknown type, three Krupp Protze vehicles and I cannot positively ID the last truck.

Bill

[DenesBernad]

Thanks, Bill, for your input.

Here is what did a Hungarian fellow write about the photo of a row of Hungarian trucks:
-at left there is a Mercedes Benz,
-then two Opel Blitz trucks,
-then three Krupp Protze (Kfz. 70),
-at the very end, possibly a Rába Botond.

What I see is that the shape of the cabin of the 2nd and 3rd trucks is not identical, so the (sub)types must be different.

Any further comments?

Dénes

[Bill Murray]

Hallo Denes:

I don't say I am 100% positive anymore, I make mistakes sometimes on these rather dark photos but consider this.

Fords had a quite distinctive rib on the doors that was wider than the contemporary Opel or Mercedes 3 tonners.
The Ford fenders/mudguards also had a fairly distinctive look. The headlamps were mounted higher relative to the mudguards and the grille than the other two. Finally, the windscreen on the Fords looked slightly different from the other two.

I will post here two photos of 1939 German Fords from long expired ebay auctions.

To return to your other observation, I believe the first is of the 1935-1937 pattern and the second is 1938-1939.
Bill

[Bill Murray]

Hallo Bernard:

I have been playing with my photo edit program and I think is is possible that the third vehicle from the left may be an Opel.
I say this only because it seems in your photo to have a vent window/quarterlight in the front door which Fords did not have and which Opels did have.

I do not want to cause problems here with ownership rights, but if you could send me the photo without your signature on it to my email address or as a PM, I would be further able to try to positively ID the third vehicle.
Cheers
Bill